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Private BROWN of 1st Life Guards died in 1914

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  • Private BROWN of 1st Life Guards died in 1914

    Doing researches about the place where my French grand-father, died Nov. 1914, is resting, I eventually found him in a German cemetery massgrave near Arras (Pas-de-Calais, France), together with 18 other French and one English.

    They all died in Comines (city both in Belgium and France) during the First battle of Ypres (Flanders). They all where hardly wounded and died as POW, that's why they have been buried by Germans. Probably as other ones, my grand-father was not recorded as dead but as missing.

    So if anyone of you is searching for a private named BROWN J.W. (or S.W.), serving at 1st Life Guards "D - Jquach" (I don't understand because I probably don't read it right) between Ypres and Comines, and missing in Nov. 1914, please let me know.

    Pascal

  • #2
    Thought it may be useful to add this here: Anyone searching for Household Cavalry soldiers i.e. Life Guards (white plume on helmet) or Blues & Royals (red plume on helmet) used to be able to get their service records from Combermere Barracks in Windsor. I believe this may no longer be the case and there is a HCR museum (sort of) in Horse Guards i.e. the square where the trooping of the colour is held and where the mounted section of the Regiment parade every day (with heavy police protection sadly, these days) - they have always kept copies of their own records. If not found at Kew they can usually be found with the Regiment.....what a wise move they made when they decided to keep their own records.
    Last edited by Sue1; 10-07-16, 12:17.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Sue1 View Post
      Thought it may be useful to add this here: Anyone searching for Household Cavalry soldiers i.e. Life Guards (white plume on helmet) or Blues & Royals (red plume on helmet) used to be able to get their service records from Combermere Barracks in Windsor. I believe this may no longer be the case and there is a HCR museum (sort of) in Horse Guards i.e. the square where the trooping of the colour is held and where the mounted section of the Regiment parade every day (with heavy police protection sadly, these days) - they have always kept copies of their own records. If not found at Kew they can usually be found with the Regiment.....what a wise move they made when they decided to keep their own records.
      Thanks Sue. I add that I contacted twice the CWGC whose office for Western Europe is in France close to Arras, but no reply. As I was there too, someone took a look in a list, but there were only dead, not missing soldiers. Beside of that, Arras is the place where they make and engrave military tombstones for whole world.

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      • #4
        You say that you saw a list but there were only dead, not missing, soldiers. I can assure you that the CWGC records list dead AND missing soldiers. If a soldier has no known grave then they will remembered on a memorial structure maintained by the CWGC. But you say he is in a mass grave. Who maintains this grave? Is it the CWGC, or French or German organisations and can you tell us exactly where it is?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by highland ranger View Post
          You say that you saw a list but there were only dead, not missing, soldiers. I can assure you that the CWGC records list dead AND missing soldiers. If a soldier has no known grave then they will remembered on a memorial structure maintained by the CWGC. But you say he is in a mass grave. Who maintains this grave? Is it the CWGC, or French or German organisations and can you tell us exactly where it is?
          I didn't saw that list myself, but that woman in the office told me it was only to find where dead soldiers are buried, no missing there. I guess there are lists with missing soldiers, but I had no access to such lists. I wrote two letters in France and England but got no reply.

          Yes he his in a mass grave (Kameradengrab), but in a big German cemetery in Saint-Laurent-Blangy (62) close to Arras. That cemetery is maintained by French office of VDK (same office than CWGC for German graves). As an information, English cemeteries are English lands (same for other allies), but German ones are on French ground. I attach the picture I took (names are in alphabetical order), as well as another one with my grand-father's name (Chaumény Ern(e)st) with some flowers I put aside. There are about 20 other French there, and I try to move French administration about that (not easy...).

          May you tell me why you're interested about that soldier?

          Saint-Laurent-Blangy-BROWN.jpgIMG_3777-2.jpgIMG_3778-2.jpg

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          • #6
            Something has just struck me - are you absolutely sure this is the correct man because the Household Cavalry does not have Privates - their equivalent rank is Trooper. I am not sure what the situation is towards mass graves but usually, after hostilities have ceased, the Germans would be moved to German graves, the French to French graves and so on - if they knew exactly who the deceased were.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Sue1
              Something has just struck me - are you absolutely sure this is the correct man because the Household Cavalry does not have Privates - their equivalent rank is Trooper. I am not sure what the situation is towards mass graves but usually, after hostilities have ceased, the Germans would be moved to German graves, the French to French graves and so on - if they knew exactly who the deceased were.
              I used the word "private" myself as a translation of French (and German) "soldat" as his rank is not indicated anywhere. You are right about exchanging bodies, but the problem in Comines was that German put privates' bodies in mass graves (officers had their own grave...), enemies as well as Germans, sometimes with quicklime on them. Their name were written on a wooden cross over the mass grave. Bodies have been moved once in 1922 and only 3 French have been identified (probably Germans have been too but I don't know). The other ones went together in that new grave, still with their name above them, with German soldiers too. In early 1960's, whole Comines German cemetery (more than 4,000 guys) has been moved near Arras, where they rest now. German office (VDK) knows about that matter, as well as some French administration, but nobody moves (and not CWGC...)

              I also found another soldier called Brown James who was buried in Comines, but not in cemetery. He was buried in the yard of Sisters of Orléans cloister, where he died (same place as my grand-father). That part of Comines was later hardly bombed, so probably his grave was destroyed. I got no other information about him nor if he was English. For me, they are different persons.

              I attach few other pictures of lists written in German (as they died as prisoners, they have a file at the Red Cross) and French. "Beerdigt zu" means "Buried in", "verst." means "deceased" and "FC" is for "fosse commune" (mass grave).

              ICRC-PA2072-BrownJames-2.jpgICRC-X1762-BrownJW-2.jpgComines-Cimetière-FC98-2.jpg

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