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Find my Past records another set of eyes needed please

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  • Find my Past records another set of eyes needed please

    I have been trying to knock down a brick wall and have been looking at entries for Thomas Barker, convict, sent out on the John Barry 4. Sentenced in 1838 and arrived Aust 1839

    Have located two records on Find My Past with Australian Convict Tickets of Leave 1824 - 1874

    Could someone kindly search for Thomas Barker on these records and help me with deciphering the writing please!

    Particularly for the one for 1844 I cannot see what the faint sideways writing says near the heading 'complexion' etc nor can I get the date it was signed down the bottom!

    (nor all the sideways numbers at the end of the cancelled update)

    Thank you

  • #2
    I need to go to bed - promise to answer any updates in the morning.

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't know what the normal wordings might be .. but here's something to start with

      Allowed on Petition per Governor's Minute on papers Reg. 46/312


      Cancelled 30 September 1844. Committed (?) for Trial for Mail Robbery and sentenced 12 months to ______ _______ _______ Papers regd 44/12870?

      Links in case anyone else can offer any more -
      Create an account for free with Findmypast to discover your family history and build a family tree. Search birth records, census data, death records and more.

      Create an account for free with Findmypast to discover your family history and build a family tree. Search birth records, census data, death records and more.
      Elaine







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      • #4
        The three words missing from Elaine's note are Cockatoo Island vide which then reads ........ and sentenced 12 months to Cockatoo Island vide Papers ......

        According to Wikipedia, Cockatoo Island is currently a UNESCO World Heritage Site in Sydney Harbour. Between 1839 and 1869 Cockatoo Island operated as a convict penal establishment primarily as a place of secondary punishment for convicts who had re-offended in the colonies.

        merleyone

        Comment


        • #5
          There's a piece in Trove about a mail robbery but the second article says not guilty, refers to Thomas Barker and James Noon

          4th Oct

          THE MAIL RO[?]RY,—Thomas Barker, ticketof-leave holder, and James Noon, a prisoner of the Crown, were on Monday fully committed to take their trial for stopping the mail and ...


          17 Oct

          Elaine

          Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

          http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
          http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Elaine View Post
            There's a piece in Trove about a mail robbery but the second article says not guilty, refers to Thomas Barker and James Noon

            4th Oct

            THE MAIL RO[?]RY,—Thomas Barker, ticketof-leave holder, and James Noon, a prisoner of the Crown, were on Monday fully committed to take their trial for stopping the mail and ...


            17 Oct

            http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/ar...4|||l-month=10
            I found those as well Elaine, but as you say he was found not guilty which doesn't match up with the amendment on the Ticket of Leave.
            Elaine







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            • #7
              Thank you so much Elaine in Spain, Elaine and Merleyone, if you have a look at the middle of the ticket down near the words Complexion and Eyes there is also another very faint word written sideways.

              I'll just go and follow those trove reports on the robbery.

              Comment


              • #8
                Well, that is interesting as the two reports give different outcomes. I think the second report identifies that it is the Thomas Barker I am looking for as he was described as a tall man - according to his convict description he was 6 ft tall.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Yvonne from Oz View Post
                  If you have a look at the middle of the ticket down near the words Complexion and Eyes there is also another very faint word written sideways.
                  Looks like "Restored .. 46/49?"
                  Elaine







                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Elaine, I thought it said restored but that didn't make any sense until someone found two accounts of the robbery in the papers on TRove - one said convicted but the other (later) one said not convicted!

                    I'll have to have time to digest the dates and try and get a time line going.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ok, I think I have it:

                      Ticket of Leave dated 15th March 1844
                      Robbery occurred 26th Sept
                      Committed for trial on 28th Sept as reported on Friday 4th October
                      Ticket cancelled on 30th Sept.
                      Trial occurred Sat 12th October as reported on Thurs 17th October. Verdict not guilty
                      Ticket of leave restored some time after verdict.

                      Personally, I suspect he might have been guilty myself! There were 4 hours from the robbery till they were apprehended - enough time to hide the bags, get rid of the money, butter and eggs, do some chores, deliver a horse at 9am go and look for cattle and "find" the bags :D

                      This one belongs to OH not me. His sentence was up in 1848.
                      Last edited by Yvonne from Oz; 24-06-16, 08:23.

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                      • #12
                        .. but what I cannot understand is the addendum of
                        Committed (?) for Trial for Mail Robbery and sentenced 12 months to Cockatoo Island vide Papers regd 44/12870?
                        - if he was found not guilty.

                        I am not too familiar with Tickets of Leave and what records are available, but wonder if there are any other archive records relating to the registration numbers which have been given.
                        Elaine







                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I know Elaine - that is the sticking point.

                          I would have not believed the newspaper reports belonged to the same Thomas Barker if I hadn't suspected the word 'restored' on the ticket - before I knew there were newspaper reports.

                          It is possible the faint numbers after restored are in fact 46/492 (what do you think?) which are the same numbers on the second ticket of leave dated 16th March 1846

                          I'll have to ask about the numbers and where they might lead to as I am not sure myself.
                          Last edited by Yvonne from Oz; 24-06-16, 09:47.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Yvonne from Oz View Post
                            It is possible the faint numbers after restored are in fact 46/492 (what do you think?) which are the same numbers on the second ticket of leave dated 16th March 1846
                            Yes, well spotted.
                            Elaine







                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Monday 30/9/1844 was the day the two men were committed for trial and on which the Ticket of Leave for Thomas Barker was also cancelled. I do not know how the Ticket of Leave procedure was effected but assume it was the Prison authorities who allowed them, following a recommendation from the local Bench for the relevant prisoner to remain in its respective area. This might be explain why on the original TOL dated 15/3/1844 there is a note of such a recommendation having been made by the Parramatta Bench in November 1843. That might mean that Thomas Barker was assigned to Mrs Acres at Parramatta in 1843 and was still with her in 1844. According to the newspaper report of 17/10/1844, both men were described at their trial as being 'late of Parramatta' but as there was a Gaol at Parramatta at that time and a police station, they must have been elsewhere whilst awaiting the trial. This might then support the note about Cockatoo Island on that original TOL but does not explain the sentencing reference.
                              It may have been nothing but a simple recording error by a clerk of the Prison authorities, which caused long term adverse consequences with any repeat application for another TOL.
                              Other records might be interesting reads if they can be found, 44/128707 TOL cancelled etc, and, 46/312 Governor's minute on papers.

                              There was however a quite robust attitude displayed at the time towards convicts and there is an illuminating article revealing such attitudes in the newspaper of 4/10/1844.
                              Lower down in the same column as the committal report, is an article entitled, 'A Nest of Vagabonds' which relates to the men assigned to Mrs Acres including 'the two men who robbed the mail' and another two named men who were discharged after having been in custody 'on suspicion of stealing a watch'. The article covers three other mail robberies near the same place when Mrs Acres's men were suspected. Absolutely no convictions at that time but the article then deplores the fact that 'these men have so much liberty to do mischief'. What mischief precisely?
                              Never let it be said that this reporter ever allowed facts, or the complete lack of them, to confuse his story although he may, of course, had good information that Acres was but the alias of a woman whose real name was Fagin.

                              merleyone

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