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Confused over Great Grand parents...

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  • Confused over Great Grand parents...

    James Murray b 1889 and Elizabeth Banks b 1889 both in Liverpool Lancashire
    Married in 1909 Elizabeth's father is down as John Banks b abt 1861(not found birth yet)-Carter, so far so good...

    I then spoke to relatives years ago and got Johns dad's name was told possibly James and a few family members of John's Banks (son of James ? ) and the father shows them to have a father James...BUT 1911 census shows

    John Married to Charlotte for 28 yrs but can not find a Marriage for them...was told his wife's name was Sarah... Found a marriage for Sarah Dutton in Kirkdale Liverpool but Johns Father's name is Robert ???
    So my my GG/dad John Banks , my ggg/dad is it James or Robert Banks...I know one of them worked in the flour Mills and believed to live in woolton Liverpool.
    To add more confusion I spoke to an elderly Uncle (son of James Murray) and he said look for Thomas Brereton cos his brother was named Thomas after him...Sarah Dutton's Father is Thomas Brereton Dutton????? Firstly I need to find the birth of John Banks, can you help me with this confusion,
    Colin

  • #2
    Is it possible that Elizabeth Ellen lied about her age on the marriage? This looks a likely Elizabeth as 3 months old in 1891, father John a Carter, mother Sarah A. There is the birth of an Elizabeth Ellen Banks registered Jan-March 1891 in West Derby 8b 447.



    If this is the right one - this is a possible for her father John in 1871 but his parents are Robert and Ellen -

    Begin your discovery today by exploring the world's largest online family history resource!
    Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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    • #3
      I have decided to go by paper information...wedding cert Says Elizabeth Ellen Banks and James Murray Wed in Liverpool in 1909 (Ancestry has Banks as Bauks)Elizabeth is 20 and James 22, Father for Elizabeth is John Banks a Carter....so I now go to the 1911 census !!!
      Head is John Banks who is 49 and his wife is Charlotte Banks who is 34 yrs ??? It states they have been wed 28 yrs ??? She would have had her 1st child at 11 yrs and second at 14 yrs and so on...so Sarah may be the first wife...can not find a marriage for Charlotte and John Banks....
      It is the correct census as Elizabeth and James Murray are visiting....
      Last edited by scouse007; 18-06-16, 16:18.

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      • #4
        James Murray (3).jpgJames Murray and Elizabeth.jpg If Sarah Ann Dutton is the real mother she died in 1901 so the last two children may be Charlottes as she is only seen in the 1911 census

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        • #5
          Possible marriage - Robert Banks (labourer) son of William, married Ellen Rothwell (dtr of Edward), 27/07/1862, Maghull, Lancashire. Witness' were Ann Banks and John Ka

          Possible baptism - John Banks bapt 15/05/1864, Maghull, Lancashire, son of Robert (labourer) and Ellen, abode Maghull.
          AUDREY

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          • #6
            Originally posted by scouse007 View Post
            [ATTACH=CONFIG]17993[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]17994[/ATTACH] If Sarah Ann Dutton is the real mother she died in 1901 so the last two children may be Charlottes as she is only seen in the 1911 census
            can't really see these as you have used the 'paperclip' attachment and that only permits a tiny picture. If you want to upload a picture so that members can read it then you need to use an external hosting site such as Photobucket or Flickr.

            instructions to use Photobucket can be found on this link: https://www.familytreeforum.com/cont...se-Photobucket
            Julie
            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

            .......I find dead people

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            • #7
              It has taken me so long to find it because John had put Mr before his name. So I thought I would put it here -

              Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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              • #8
                I think you have the correct marriage for John Banks:

                Sarah Ann Dutton and John Banks were married on 27 Aug 1883 in St. Mary's, Kirkdale, Lancaster, (West Derby Sept 1883 8b 733), England - her father's name was Thomas Brayton
                Kat

                My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                • #9
                  SARAH ANN BANKS
                  Gender Female
                  Birth year 1864
                  Age 37
                  Death quarter 4
                  Death year 1901
                  District WEST DERBY
                  County Lancashire
                  Volume 8B
                  Page 345
                  Kat

                  My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                  • #10
                    John is on his own here - I wonder if Sarah Ann was in hospital as she died later in the year.
                    1901 census
                    3, Acacia Grove, Walton on the Hill, West Derby, Lancashire, England
                    Ellen Banks Head Widow Female 60 1841 Laundress Maghull, Lancashire, England
                    John Banks Son Married Male 36 1865 Carter Liverpool, Lancashire, England
                    Alice Banks Daughter Single Female 21 1880 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
                    Ellen Banks Daughter Single Female 17 1884 - Maghull, Lancashire, England
                    Robert Banks Grand Son Single Male 13 1888 Errand Boy Liverpool, Lancashire, England
                    Elizabeth Banks Grand Daughter Single Female 10 1891 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
                    Annie Banks Grand Daughter Single Female 8 1893 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
                    Maggie Banks Grand Daughter Single Female 6 1895 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
                    Henry Bridge Boarder Single Male 26 1875 Carter Liverpool, Lancashire, England
                    Kat

                    My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                    • #11
                      Hi
                      I spent hours researching today and in the evening...came up with the same...will need a few certs to show it is correct BUT Charlotte I Carnt find a marriage if there was one...the last two children must be hers so finding their birth is next....
                      Thanks Kat
                      :o

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                      • #12
                        I live in Garston - next to Woolton - if you find any family members died in Woolton - I can pop up to the churches and look for headstones - for instance there is a John Banks who died 1898 in Woolton
                        in case you don't know of this site - go to


                        any event
                        banks
                        search
                        = 98 results ....have a look and see if you recognise any records
                        Allan ......... researching oakes/anyon/standish/collins/hartley/barker/collins-cheshire
                        oakes/tipping/ellis/jones/schacht/...garston, liverpool
                        adams-shropshire/roberts-welshpool
                        merrick/lewis/stringham/nicolls-herefordshire
                        coxon/williamson/kay/weaver-glossop/stockport/walker-gorton

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post
                          I think you have the correct marriage for John Banks:

                          Sarah Ann Dutton and John Banks were married on 27 Aug 1883 in St. Mary's, Kirkdale, Lancaster, (West Derby Sept 1883 8b 733), England - her father's name was Thomas Brayton
                          Hope I didn't mislead you - father's name should read Thomas Brayton Dutton - could have been Brereton though taking accents etc into consideration.

                          Father of John is Thomas Banks
                          Last edited by Katarzyna; 20-06-16, 11:07.
                          Kat

                          My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by scouse007 View Post
                            Hi
                            I spent hours researching today and in the evening...came up with the same...will need a few certs to show it is correct BUT Charlotte I Carnt find a marriage if there was one...the last two children must be hers so finding their birth is next....
                            Thanks Kat
                            :o
                            Hi
                            This may be a complete red herring but there were 3 Banks children registered in West Derby (right reg district for where they were living in 1911). Charlotte Q4 1912, Thomas Q1 1915 & Martha Q2 1917. All with mmn Macey. It was the Charlotte that caught my eye.
                            I have tried to find a Banks/Macey marriage to eliminate them but can't seem to find one unless the woman married under a different name i.e previously married. What do you think?
                            Moggie

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                            • #15
                              1891 census RG 12 Piece 2978 Folio 60 Page 3
                              Leta Street, Walton on the Hill
                              John Banks Head Married Male 27 1864 Carter Maghull, Lancashire, England
                              Sarah A Banks Wife Married Female 26 1865 - Birkenhead, Lancashire, England
                              Robert T Banks Son - Male 3 1888 - Lancashire, England
                              Elizabeth E Banks Daughter - Female 0 1891 - Lancashire, England

                              1871 census
                              Langham Street, Kirkdale, West Derby, Lancashire, England
                              Thomas Dutton Head - Male 37 1834 - Hope, Flintshire, Wales Transcription
                              Catherine Dutton Wife - Female 35 1836 - Tilston, Cheshire, England Transcription
                              John W Dutton Son - Male 11 1860 - Tilston, Cheshire, England Transcription
                              Sarah A Dutton Daughter - Female 9 1862 - Tilston, Cheshire, England Transcription
                              Thomas E Dutton Son - Male 5 1866 - Boughton, Flintshire, Wales Transcription
                              Charles A Dutton Son - Male 2 1869 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England Transcription
                              Walter H Dutton Son - Male 0 1871 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England

                              Births Sep 1862
                              DUTTON Sarah Ann Gt Boughton 8a 326 - Reg dist for Tilston
                              Kat

                              My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                              • #16
                                1881
                                49, Marsh Street, Kirkdale, West Derby, Lancashire, England
                                Possibly Sarah Dutton? Barmaid b Cheshire
                                RG11
                                Piece number 3679
                                Folio 23
                                Page 39

                                re # 15 Birkenhead was historically Cheshire not Lancashire - Registration County : Cheshire (1861-1974)
                                Kat

                                My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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                                • #17
                                  Thomas Dutton married May 1859 Great Boughton 8a Page 468
                                  Cheshire to Catherine Foulkes

                                  I wouldn't be too concerned about finding a marriage for John and Charlotte as she is not a direct line ancestor. They may not have married.

                                  Post 5 Willsmum gave the birth reg for John Banks - this is the cert you really need.- not Charlotte's children
                                  and the marriage to Sarah of course.
                                  Last edited by Katarzyna; 20-06-16, 16:11.
                                  Kat

                                  My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

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