Miller

[janice2852]

Hi I am looking to find my great great granddads Father and Mother. My my g,g granddad was named William Miller he was born about 1805, I don't know if he was married before he lived with his partner Helen Mcfarlane she was married before to Alexander Muggoch (could not find any marriage certificate for her and William). William's sons:- my great grandad Robert born 1851 James born 1855 Alexander born 1858 Peter born 1860. Hope someone can help have been looking for some time now. Thanks

[Olde Crone Holden]

Hello Janice and welcome to FTF.

This sounds like a Scottish family. If you get the birth certificate for James, born 1855, you should be able to see whether his parents were married to each other - Scottish birth certs often say if a child is born illegitimately and in 1855, ought to give the date and place of the parents' marriage (although some of mine made up this information!). You should be able to download the cert from Scotlands People website.

It would also help if you could tell us where in Scotland this all took place.

OC

[Chrissie Smiff]

Hi Janice and welcome to FTF
Can you give us a link to them in 1861 please? I have looked but can't find a family that fits the names you have given.

[janice2852]

Hi OC,

Thanks for the quick reply

Yes they are a Scottish family.

Have found Peter's and Alexander's birth certificates and all it has on them is Helen Miller maiden name McFarlane.
On Peters birth certificates it has Central District, Glasgow, Lanark and on Alexander's it has High Church, Glasgow, Lanark.

They lived at 130, South Wellington Street, Glasgow and on Helen's death certificate she was still living at the same address, it also has her a the widow of Alexander Muggie Bleachfield worker ( not sure what that is ) and the widow of William Miller Cooper/ Journeyman.

I have looked on Scotlands People for my g,g grandfather but without his Father and Mothers name it's hard to say who his parents were. Have you any ideas ?

Jan

[Olde Crone Holden]

Janice

I'm really surprised that Alexander's birth cert doesn't have more information than that - 1855 was the first year of Scottish civil registration and certificates for that year normally contained A LOT of information. (Later ones don't contain quite so much but are still a lot more informative than English certs).

Have you found them in 1851? What was William's occupation then?

OC

[janice2852]

Hi Chrissie

Thanks for the welcome and the reply.

On the 1851 Census it has them down as Millear, I think this is them as it has my Grandad Robert born 1851 and he was 3 months old it also has his step sister on there her name was Helen Muggie / Muggoch. Helen Miller, William partner was married to Alexander Muggie / Muggoch before they lived together. William my g,g,grandfather was 46 and Helen Was 34.Living at Holm Street, Glasgow.

Then on the 1861 Census it has them down as Millar Robert was 10 also on there is his brothers Peter / Alaxander who was a wittnes at Roberts wedding.
William was 56 and Helen 43. Living at 22,Weaver Street, Glasgow Inner High.

On my great granddads wedding Certificate Helen living at 130, South Wellington Street, Glasgow. William my g,g granddad father is deceased by then.

Hope I have this all correct.

Thanks
Jan

[janice2852]

Hi OC,

On the 1851 Census it has them down as Millear, I think this is them as it has my Grandad Robert born 1851 and he was 3 months old it also has his step sister on there her name was Helen Muggie / Muggoch. Helen Miller, William partner was married to Alexander Muggie / Muggoch before they lived together. William my g,g,grandfather was 46 and Helen Was 34.Living at Holm Street, Glasgow.

Then on the 1861 Census it has them down as Millar Robert was 10 also on there is his brothers Peter / Alaxander who was a wittnes at Roberts wedding.
William was 56 and Helen 43. Living at 22,Weaver Street, Glasgow Inner High.

On my great granddads wedding Certificate Helen living at 130, South Wellington Street, Glasgow. William my g,g granddad father is deceased by then.

William Miller Cooper/ Journeyman

Hope I have this all correct.

[Macbev]

Deleted.......duplicated info

[Olde Crone Holden]

So William died sometime between 1861 and????. His death cert will name his parents (as known to the informant).

OC

[Chrissie Smiff]

I'm a bit confused Janice. Y0u gave these births - my great grandad Robert born 1851 - James born 1855 - Alexander born 1858 - Peter born 1860.

In 1861 though (apart from the older children) I can see Robert 10 - George 8 - Alexander 4 and Peter 4 months. You didn't mention George and I can't see a James.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1861Scotland&indiv=try&h=2854106

[Chrissie Smiff]

I assume this is them in 1871 with Helen transcribed as Ellen Muller? - She is given as head with no William present -

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1871Scotland&indiv=try&h=4289101

[janice2852]

Hi Chrissie

I found James on Familysearch James Miller born 1855 birthplace High Church, Glasgow. Lanark Father William Miller and Mother Helen Macfarlane. From the 1861 Census under Millar I have

William Millar 1805

Helen Millar 1818 William Millar 1843 John Millar 1845 David 1847 Robert 1851 George 1853 Alexander 1857 Peter 1861 Have I got it wrong ? Jan

[Chrissie Smiff]

No Janice, that's what we have. Just no sign of James, so I think he must have died.
Did you see OC's message asking you when William died. As we can't find a marriage, Willams death cert might just give you his parents names.

p.s. Do you think that link I posted for 1871 is Helen (as Ellen)?

[janice2852]

Hi Chrissie,

I don't think she is that Helen in the 1871, I do know she died on the13th March 1883 her husband William had died and her son Robert signed the death certificate

[janice2852]

I think William died around 1866 he had died before his son Robert married in 1877. Should I write down every thing I know about my family would that help.

[Chrissie Smiff]

As long as you don't give the names of anyone who is, or who may still be living, you can tell us anything that you think might help. As long as you have worked backwards from yourself with certificates etc though I can't think what else can help us find out who Williams parents were. Apart from perhaps his death certificate, or any marriage he might have had.

Unfortunately Miller seems to be a very common name in Scotland.

[kylejustin]

Spouses are recorded on scots death certs. Look for all William miller deaths in glasgow between the last census you've seen him in and the next where his widow is. Common name, but cheaper exercise to narrow it down than if he died in England.

[Chrissie Smiff]

It isn't the spouse's name that Janice wants though Kyle. It's his parents. Would their names be listed on a death cert if the informant knew them?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Chrissie

That's what I've been saying - Scottish death certs list the names of the parents of the deceased - as known to the informant, of course, which does allow for some error to creep in , but it is a good start!

OC

[Chrissie Smiff]

Sorry OC, I don't know why I was asking again. Maybe I was just trying to press the point.

Yesterday I did a search of William Miller deaths in Glasgow between 1861 and 1871. There were three that 'sort of' fit with age, so I used some of those free credits we got recently to look at them. Non were the right ones I'm afraid.
For illumination purposes though, the three to avoid are Mother surname's - Keith (1866) - Downie (1866) - Mcaulay (1869).