Interesting / unusual BMD Certificates ?

[AntonyM]

I am giving a talk on civil registration (from the registrar's viewpoint) soon at the SoG. I will be talking about understanding exactly how registration works, what certificates really mean and how to interpret them - especially those with unusual entries. I have my material ready and some good examples to use but I'd be interested in seeing any more certificates you have come across in your extensive research with entries which you have found difficult to understand. I'm particularly looking for some interesting corrections, re-registrations and declarations.

If anyone has a certificate they aren't sure about and want to know more, please send me a copy by PM and I'll explain it for you ( and maybe use it in my talk).

Thanks

[Anne in Carlisle]

I have one where there is supposed to be no father's name entered. In fact it has been entered an an attempt made to alter it but you can still read the name! This is a GRO copy, not one which has been altered by the 'owner'.
I'm away from home at the moment so can't remember all the details, when do you need it for?
Anne

[AntonyM]

Anne - The talk is a month away so no hurry , but that sounds interesting and exactly what I'm looking for.

I was shown one the other day at the Who Do You Think You Are Live show which sounded the same, but only as an image on someone's phone - the father's name had been entered but then the registrar must have realised the couple weren't married and and crossed through it as a correction. It left the name clearly readable though which was great.

[PeteW1959]

I have a BC that has the number 48 under the child's name, with the words 'Forty Eight' initialled in the margin. No idea what this means.

I am happy to send you scan by email (the subject is long gone, b1843).

[AntonyM]

I have a BC that has the number 48 under the child's name, with the words 'Forty Eight' initialled in the margin. No idea what this means.

I am happy to send you scan by email (the subject is long gone, b1843).

Pete

It is called a "numbered correction" - I'd be happy to have a look and tell you why it was done (send an image to info@chalfontresearch.co.uk)

[Chris in Sussex]

I have a copy of a birth re-registration in 1939.....

Original registration in 1892 as Albert Brunt

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8912&iid=ONS_B18923AZ-0080&fn=Albert&ln=Brunt&st=d&ssrc=&pid=34866823

Re Registration in 1939 as Albert Mullings

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8782&iid=ons_b19392az-0855&fn=Albert&ln=Mullings&st=d&ssrc=&pid=24975357

However although the index is correct the copy certificate issued in 2007 is not.

The certificate states ‘re registration under the Legitimacy Act 1926 on the 14th April 1939
7th August 1892
Albert
Boy
Father: Albert BRUNT
Mother: Sarah BRUNT formerly MULLINGS

So round the wrong way!! Father should be Mullings and the mother Mullings formerly Brunt.

Is that the sort of thing you are looking for?
Please let me know if you would like a copy.

Chris

[AntonyM]

Chris

Certainly doesn't look right, but I'd like to see exactly how it is written to be sure ... the 2007 certificate should be a copy of whatever is on the 1939 re-registration, so it would be interesting to see what is on the certificates. Do you have copies of each (the 1892 version, the 1939 and the 2007 ). Sounds like a good example of a re-registration after marriage (with the added bonus of an apparent mistake by the registrar). I'd be very grateful to see whatever you have.

Antony
(info@chalfontresearch.co.uk)

[Chris in Sussex]

Hi Anthony

Certificate sent to your e.mail address

Chris

[PeteW1959]

Image sent to your email, thanks for any info you can give.

[Gwyn in Kent]

I have 2 unusual birth certificates. One for an 1882 birth, the other 1888.

You can read the background to the earlier one on an old posting about Florence here...

http://www.familytreeforum.com/showthread.php/78892-A-beginning-and-an-end-for-Florence?highlight=skerrett

Briefly, Florence was illegitimate and so her father could not be named in column 4,but luckily for me he was the informant and was shown as father in column 7.

The 1888 birth was for a child shown as Eva, a girl born to a married couple in Wales.
The far right hand column records corrections made 25 September 1901 stating that Eva should read Evan and 'boy' should read 'girl', a statutory declaration having been made by his parents.
My mother knew this man, whose name was pronounced Even and he was the father of 2 children. I am guessing that a birth certificate was needed before he started work and it was then that the errors were noticed.

Can send copies if you are interested.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Pity you don't want Scottish certs! I have quite a collection which state firmly "illegitimate". This is not just for births but also appears on some marriage certs and even a few death certs. Quite why Scotland decided to record this fact so often is a puzzle to me.

(And are you illegitimate, Mr McBloggs? What about your late wife, was she illegitimate too? And her parents?)

OC

[James18]

Antony, what was/is the procedure for amending names after the registration of a child's birth? Is there a cut-off point for doing so? My mother has two separate birth certificates because some time after her birth - I don't know how long - an extra name was added, which appears in the 'Name entered after registration' column on her original certificate, and as part of her full name on the later certificate. Is this fairly typical?

[AntonyM]

I have 2 unusual birth certificates. One for an 1882 birth, the other 1888.

You can read the background to the earlier one on an old posting about Florence here...

http://www.familytreeforum.com/showthread.php/78892-A-beginning-and-an-end-for-Florence?highlight=skerrett

Briefly, Florence was illegitimate and so her father could not be named in column 4,but luckily for me he was the informant and was shown as father in column 7.

The 1888 birth was for a child shown as Eva, a girl born to a married couple in Wales.
The far right hand column records corrections made 25 September 1901 stating that Eva should read Evan and 'boy' should read 'girl', a statutory declaration having been made by his parents.
My mother knew this man, whose name was pronounced Even and he was the father of 2 children. I am guessing that a birth certificate was needed before he started work and it was then that the errors were noticed.

Can send copies if you are interested.

I would be interested to see those Gwyn

I'd be particularly interested to see how the informant qualification was shown on the 1882 birth.

Antony

[AntonyM]

Antony, what was/is the procedure for amending names after the registration of a child's birth? Is there a cut-off point for doing so? My mother has two separate birth certificates because some time after her birth - I don't know how long - an extra name was added, which appears in the 'Name entered after registration' column on her original certificate, and as part of her full name on the later certificate. Is this fairly typical?

James

If a child has been given a new or additional name after the original registration ( through baptism or otherwise) then that can be added to the original entry in what was column 10 (or more recently space 17) as a "name added after registration" . The new name has to be given to the child and in use within 12 months of the original registration, although in certain circumstances the actual addition to the entry can take place after that time limit.

The later certificate sounds like it might be a re-registration ? The exact wording, dates and who the informants were shown as are critical in correctly interpreting these amended entries so I would need to see copies of both to be able to fully understand what happened - please send me copies if you would like a definitive answer.

(I don't have a good example of a certificate showing this type of name added, so would be very useful for me !

Antony

[Harrys mum]

I have a birth cert from GRO with the father's Christian name is incorrect. No idea if it's possible to get it changed. I did email someone (it was a while ago) and was told it was just a direct copy of the one held at the registrars office, so presume the original is also wrong.

There is a thread here about it, but we assumed the mother's brother registered the birth and the person filling out the form assumed he was the father and asked his name.....lol

[AntonyM]

I have a birth cert from GRO with the father's Christian name is incorrect. No idea if it's possible to get it changed. I did email someone (it was a while ago) and was told it was just a direct copy of the one held at the registrars office, so presume the original is also wrong.

There is a thread here about it, but we assumed the mother's brother registered the birth and the person filling out the form assumed he was the father and asked his name.....lol

If it is an historical registration and the people concerned are no longer around, then making a correction would be virtually impossible. But GRO are correct , they cannot change anything - it has to be done where the original is held.

A brother being the informant is not common - I'd like to see what qualification was shown that allowed him to do that. Establishing who the mother and father are are key questions the registrar needs to ask, so no assumption should ever be made (but errors do happen). I'd be happy to have a look at the certificate for you to see exactly what it reveals.

[Tom Tom]

I have about ten registrars in the family, going all the way back to when civil registration began.
One was a superintendent registrar for weddings, and was unceremoniously dismissed in 1905 after over 60 years of service.
it is great to be able to see the actual handwriting of relatives who have filled out those full certificates (copies from the GRO).
I have one early one where the informant was also the registrar! Not sure that this would be allowed now.

I also have the (allegedly) oldest registrar in the country who was about 90 when he died and still held the title of superintendent registrar and I also have the first ever female registrar who was deputy superintendent registrar to her husband.

[AntonyM]

It is interesting to have so many registrars in the family - it did seem to be a role that at one time was done by husband/wife or father/son.

To be certain you are looking at the handwriting of your ancestor though, you need to be looking at copies taken from the original register (held at the local registration office), not from the copies held and supplied by GRO.

.....and no , the registrar should not be the informant on an entry they register themselves !

Antony

[Tom Tom]

I have cross referenced their signature with other sources, so am sure it is their writing, and they are copies from the GRO that would have been copied out by the registrar anyway. Also, a couple of times I know that the certificate has the registrar being Mr Smith, but from the handwriting I know it was Mrs Smith who copied out that lot to send off to the GRO.
I only have the one example of the registrar also being the informant. It was a death in the 1840s. Other deaths /births around the same time were all officially registered by another member of the family, with the registrar staying the same.

[AntonyM]

Tom
You are correct - the registrar should be the one who copied out the quarterly returns to GRO, but they don't have to be. If there was a deputy or assistant employed, they could also do it (although the registrar would be responsible for the accuracy of the entries in their register).

A registrar being the informant on a death and registering it themselves opens up all sorts of possibilities for foul play ! ... (certainly not allowed today, and they probably shouldn't have done it then)