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ozgirl
01-04-16, 17:24
In 1911 Blanche Parker, spinster b. 1858 in Oxford, is living in Oxford. With her on census night are a niece, Bessie Agnes Parker, and a visitor. Bessie Agnes is 13 born ca 1898 in Bromley, Kent. A birth reg. from Oct 1897 seems to confirm this. As Blanche only had one brother Abraham William Parker who was b 1855 in Oxford, and according to censuses seems to have stayed in Oxford, I doubt he is the father of Bessie. Blanche did however have 3 sisters, Maude Eliza Burton Parker, 1849; Fanny Lucy Parker b 1851 and Margaret Ann Cecilia Parker b 1852, all Headington Oxford who do no seem to want to be found.

So can anyone find any trace of Bessie Agnes in 1901, or anything to link her to Blanche.

1911: http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_08146_0819_03?pid=51794186&backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f%2fcg i-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3dagnes%26gsfn_x%3d0 %26gsln%3dparker%26gsln_x%3d0%26MSAV%3d1%26msbdy%3 d1897%26msbpn__ftp%3dBromley%252c%2bKent%252c%2bEn gland%26msbpn%3d1667391%26msbpn_PInfo%3d8-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%2 57c5270%257c1667391%257c0%257c%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d1 1%26catbucket%3drstp%26uidh%3d3u3%26pcat%3dROOT_CA TEGORY%26h%3d51794186%26db%3d1911England%26indiv%3 d1%26ml_rpos%3d2&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true

Thanks

Night Owl
01-04-16, 18:52
No luck yet with Bessie but it looks as though Fanny Lucy Parker married Thomas Constable in 1883 so Bessie is unlikely to be her child

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_197436-00241?pid=3034103&backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f%2fcg i-bin%2fsse.dll%3fviewrecord%3d1%26r%3d5538%26db%3dL MAmarriages%26indiv%3dtry%26h%3d3034103&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true

ozgirl
01-04-16, 18:58
Thanks Jackie, one of them sorted!

Karamazov
01-04-16, 18:59
Could Bessie possibly be this 4 year old nurse child in the household of Ezekiel Miller and family 14 Jaffray Road, Bromley, Kent? I don't have ancestry but here's the FMP link:

http://search.findmypast.com/record?id=gbc%2f1901%2f0004202365

Have you considered she might be a great-niece of Blanche's - haven't got time at the moment to track Abraham's sons to see if this is a possibility ...

Christine

Karamazov
01-04-16, 19:04
This may be Margaret Anne Cecilia:


First names)
MARGARET ANN C


Last name
PARKER


Marriage quarter
3


Marriage year
1876


Registration month
-


MarriageFinder™
MARGARET ANN C PARKER married one of these people
WILLIAM MURRAY, RALPH RAWLINSON


District
HEADINGTON


District number
-


County
Oxfordshire


Country
England


Volume
3A


Page
893


Record set
England & Wales marriages 1837-2008

ozgirl
01-04-16, 19:08
Fanny Lucy Constable of the Bell Hotel died in Charlbury in Oct 1946 - supposedly aged 99 - she added 4 years! A newspaper report said she was the oldest licensee in the country.

Night Owl
01-04-16, 19:30
Could Bessie possibly be this 4 year old nurse child in the household of Ezekiel Miller and family 14 Jaffray Road, Bromley, Kent? I don't have ancestry but here's the FMP link:

http://search.findmypast.com/record?id=gbc%2f1901%2f0004202365

Have you considered she might be a great-niece of Blanche's - haven't got time at the moment to track Abraham's sons to see if this is a possibility ...

Christine

This is the Ancestry link to that 1901 entry

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7814/KENRG13_682_684-0659?pid=21495476&backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f%2fcg i-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3dezekiel% 26gsfn_x%3d0%26gsln%3dmiller%26gsln_x%3d0%26MSAV%3 d0%26uidh%3di03%26pcat%3d1901UKI%26h%3d21495476%26 db%3duki1901%26indiv%3d1%26ml_rpos%3d1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true

ozgirl
01-04-16, 19:34
Christine those both look really good. That would only leave Maude to trace, I wonder if she died young as I can only find her on the 1851 census. Brother Abraham's eldest child was born in 1888, so too young for any of them to parent Bessie. What confuses me is that this family were solidly in Oxford for generations, then suddenly Bessie pops up in Kent. I was wondering (Clutching at straws rather) whether maybe Fanny, who was in London when she married had a child before marrying Mr Constable, and this child is the parent (mother?) of Bessie. Fanny is at home with the family in 1881, but could just about have managed a child before marrying in 1883 - the child would then have been about 16 in 1897. I'm reaching for it a bit. Trouble is these are really distant twigs, so don't really want to spend out for the cert.

Night Owl
01-04-16, 19:38
Presume this is the family in 1861

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1861&indiv=try&h=18257654

Maud is still there

Do you think this could be her in 1871?

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gss=angs-c&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=maud&gsfn_x=0&msbdy=1849&msbpn__ftp=Oxford%2c+Oxfordshire%2c+England&msbpn=86850&msbpn_PInfo=8-%7c0%7c0%7c3257%7c3251%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c5280%7c86850% 7c0%7c&MSAV=0&uidh=i03&pcat=1871UKI&h=1727198&db=uki1871&indiv=1&ml_rpos=2

Night Owl
01-04-16, 19:44
Blanche is with her parents in 1891 here

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6598/OXFRG12_1161_1164-0398?pid=15926601&backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f%2fcg i-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1891%26h%3d159 26601%26tid%3d%26pid%3d%26usePUB%3dtrue%26rhSource %3d8767&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true

Have you any idea who Ellinor is? She would be old enough to be Bessie's mother

Karamazov
01-04-16, 20:09
Looks like Margaret married William Murray. In 1881 at 11 Buckland Terrace, South Stoneham, Hants




First name(s)
Last name
Relationship
Marital status
Gender
Age
Birth year
Occupation
Birth place



William
Murray
Head
Married
Male
30
1851
Draughtsman Ordnance Office (C S O)
Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland



Margaret A C
Murray
Wife
Married
Female
28
1853
Draughtsman Wife
Oxford, Oxfordshire, England



Margaret M M
Murray
Daughter
Single
Female
3
1878
Scholar
Oxford, Oxfordshire, England



Eleanor R V
Murray
Daughter
Single
Female
2
1879
-
Oxford, Oxfordshire, England



Then at Lodge Place, South Stoneham in 1891
Household Members




First name(s)
Last name
Relationship
Marital status
Gender
Age
Birth year
Occupation
Birth place



William
Murray
Head
Married
Male
40
1851
Draughtsman Ordnance Survey
Edinburgh, Scotland



Margaret A C
Murray
Wife
Married
Female
38
1853
-
Oxford



Margaret M M
Murray
Daughter
Single
Female
13
1878
Scholar
Oxford



William J
Murray
Son
Single
Male
7
1884
Scholar
Southampton, Hampshire, England

Karamazov
01-04-16, 20:10
Blanche is with her parents in 1891 here

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6598/OXFRG12_1161_1164-0398?pid=15926601&backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f%2fcg i-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1891%26h%3d159 26601%26tid%3d%26pid%3d%26usePUB%3dtrue%26rhSource %3d8767&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true

Have you any idea who Ellinor is? She would be old enough to be Bessie's mother

Eleanor Murray is Blanche's niece - daughter of her sister Margaret - see 1881 census in above post.

JudithM
01-04-16, 21:58
I suppose the only way to know for sure will be to get Bessie's birth cert but could she perhaps be a daughter of a cousin of Blanche rather than of one of her siblings. I know that would make her a cousin once removed but it might have seemed simpler to describe her as niece.
I've searched for various combinations of names, approx yob and Bromley or just Kent as place of birth in 1901 but she does seem intent on hiding.

ozgirl
01-04-16, 21:59
Wow, I go away for a bite of dinner and come back to find all these discoveries - I was having absolutely no luck when I was looking for them this afternoon. So it looks like both of Margarets daughters could possibly be the mother of Bessie, and Maud - I think that is her in 1871 Jackie, thank you, is a Barmaid in London, so is also in the right area. I wonder where Margaret jr. and Ellinor are in 1901 - if either of them are in Bromley area, that would narrow down things!

Thanks so much both of you.

Night Owl
01-04-16, 22:04
They're in Hampshire

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1901&gss=angs-d&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&MS_AdvCB=1&gsfn=eleanor&gsfn_x=1&gsln=murray&gsln_x=1&msbdy=1879&msbdy_x=1&MSAV=-1&uidh=i03&pcat=1901UKI&fh=1&h=1157218&recoff=&ml_rpos=2

Karamazov
01-04-16, 23:11
Wow, I go away for a bite of dinner and come back to find all these discoveries - I was having absolutely no luck when I was looking for them this afternoon. So it looks like both of Margarets daughters could possibly be the mother of Bessie, and Maud - I think that is her in 1871 Jackie, thank you, is a Barmaid in London, so is also in the right area. I wonder where Margaret jr. and Ellinor are in 1901 - if either of them are in Bromley area, that would narrow down things!

Thanks so much both of you.
Am I missing something here - I'm not following the logic of either of Margaret's daughters potentially being Bessie's mother - they are both Murrays so presumably Bessie's Parker surname would have to come via her father, whoever he was?

Karamazov
01-04-16, 23:19
I suppose the only way to know for sure will be to get Bessie's birth cert but could she perhaps be a daughter of a cousin of Blanche rather than of one of her siblings. I know that would make her a cousin once removed but it might have seemed simpler to describe her as niece.
I've searched for various combinations of names, approx yob and Bromley or just Kent as place of birth in 1901 but she does seem intent on hiding.
Not definitive by any means but see the possible 1901 Bessie Parker in Bromley mentioned in post 4 (with FMP link). Jackie has supplied the ancestry link in post 7.

ozgirl
01-04-16, 23:29
My thinking was because they were both born before Margaret married William Murray, they would both legally be Parkers instead of Murrays and so pass that name on.. However it does look as both were registered as Murray and not Parker, so another of my ideas gone. There is still Maud who was (possibly) last sighted in London in 1871, or another possibility might be that Bessie is actually Blanches daughter but called niece as Blanche is unmarried.

ozgirl
01-04-16, 23:37
Aah - Eleanor Rose Victoria Murray died 9 Jan 1941. Probate record, Admin granted to Margaret Maud Mary Whiton, widow.

ozgirl
01-04-16, 23:40
My thinking was because they were both born before Margaret married William Murray, they would both legally be Parkers instead of Murrays and so pass that name on.. However it does look as both were registered as Murray and not Parker, so another of my ideas gone. There is still Maud who was (possibly) last sighted in London in 1871, or another possibility might be that Bessie is actually Blanches daughter but called niece as Blanche is unmarried.

Ignore this - for some reason I thought that Margaret married William in 1883, not 1876 - I'm obviously talking complete rubbish!

ozgirl
01-04-16, 23:52
Found this - details of Abrahams family at the bottom, saying there was another son, Frederick b. 1862. Wonder where he was for the censuses or did he die young?

http://www.stsepulchres.org.uk/burials/parker_william.html

Frederick Abraham Parker died Jun Quarter 1864, Oxford.

Night Owl
01-04-16, 23:53
Am I missing something here - I'm not following the logic of either of Margaret's daughters potentially being Bessie's mother - they are both Murrays so presumably Bessie's Parker surname would have to come via her father, whoever he was?

The reason I first asked about Ellinor (Eleanor) was because in 1891 Blanche is living with her parents, Abraham and Maud Parker and also living there was their granddaughter, Ellinor Parker aged 12. I wasn't aware at the time that they had a granddaughter of the same age called Eleanor Murray and who wasn't with her parents in 1891. I presume if it is the same person that the enumerator just assumed that she had the same surname

This is the FMP link to the 1891

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbc%2f1891%2f0008753520