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Children who died but not on any Census.

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  • Children who died but not on any Census.

    Hi everyone!

    On my great grandfathers 1911 census record in column eight and nine it shows two children still living and two who died. On all of the previous census records from the time of his marriage only the two living children were shown. Is there any way of finding the records of the two that died?

    Thanks Malcolm.

  • #2
    you will have to go to freebmd.org.uk

    Look for the gaps in their marriage when 1 or more children could have been born

    then go to freebmd and see if you can find children with the surname and the area, fitting the time frame when his children might have been born

    See if you can match those births up with deaths.

    Or look for baptisms for possible children at the church or area where the living children were baptised.

    It's very hit or miss, as none of the birth registrations show the mother's maiden name until mid-1911

    Of course, stillbirths will not be shown anywhere.

    Occasionally people find a death registration but not a birth registration. In that case, the baby will have lived for only a matter of days or weeks. Death registrations have to be done asap, but mothers have 6 weeks in which to register a birth, and sometimes the fact that they hadn't registered the birth gets forgotten.

    Also remember that the information on how long married and number of children actually was to be given for the WIFE ........... so sometimes the wife might have children born before the current marriage.

    I'm reminded of that because I recently spent quite a long time searching for the 1 child said on the 1911 to be born to a distant relative of OH's. For some reason, I decided to follow the wife's parents, and there was the 1 child, born before the marriage to OH's relation. Grandparents were raising him.
    Last edited by Sylvia C; 21-02-16, 04:54.
    My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

    Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Sylvia C View Post

      Of course, stillbirths will not be shown anywhere.

      Interestingly on FamilySearch there is a new collection of records from Oldham cemeteries, and most of the areas have stillborn registers, some from the 1880's and going up to the 1990's. The records are browsable only, but if you have family from that area you might be lucky.
      Linda


      My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

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      • #4
        Certainly in Lancashire I have found that many/most church registers record stillbirth burials. These are very rarely transcribed online though.

        OC

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        • #5
          If it is Lancashire that you are looking at try ukbmd.org and choose your county from the menu on the left then click on the Lancashire link that comes up. Go to search births and click on the date of marriage hold down the shift key abd scroll down to 1911 and click. All the chosen dates should turn blue. Now enter the family surname and the mother's maiden surname and click search.
          If the volunteers have completed your reg. district for your chosen dates, then the results will show the mother's maiden name on the right of the page. Something the GRO indexes will not show.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Sylvia C View Post
            Occasionally people find a death registration but not a birth registration. In that case, the baby will have lived for only a matter of days or weeks. Death registrations have to be done asap, but mothers have 6 weeks in which to register a birth, and sometimes the fact that they hadn't registered the birth gets forgotten.
            In that situation, the birth registration should be done by the registrar at the same time as the death is registered - although no doubt in the past some registrars didn't perhaps think it necessary.

            Tracking down those missing children between census can be difficult/expensive depending on how common the surname is - but careful use of the search options on FreeBMD , especially making sure you are looking at the correct registration district can help.
            Last edited by AntonyM; 21-02-16, 11:27.
            Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
            Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

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            • #7
              As Antony points out, often the birth and death were registered at the same time. This can lead to some apparent anomolies when looking at the INDEXES, as it sometimes appears that the death was registered before the birth.

              OC

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              • #8
                I have had to register the birth and death of an infant at the same time a few times - always by far the worst sort of appointment for a registrar to deal with.
                Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
                Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

                Comment


                • #9
                  It can be helpful to consider forenames.

                  A friend recently took up the search for a child, who was mentioned in hospital records for the mother. They stated that the lady had had 3 children. Nowhere else on census etc.were there 3, only 2.
                  My friend was faced with looking for the child, ( boy or girl? ), with what surname ( lady had been married twice, then sailed for New Zealand )....or was the child born illegitimate before the first marriage ? The 2 girls were born miles away from the family's usual haunts in London outskirts, so no clue there.

                  The family kept to the same range of tried and tested names, until suddenly Arthur crept in.... Where did that come from?

                  Wondering if maybe the missing child was an Arthur, later remembered in relatives' use of his name, my friend searched infant and young children's deaths in the area of first marriage, as she felt the child probably died young.
                  It was a chance she had to take and would the certificate show enough information to link him to the correct family anyway?

                  Luckily when the certificate arrived it showed that Arthur Thomas died at an address wellknown to my friend from other family certs. and although the relationship wasn't shown, only 'present at the death', the child's grandfather was the informant.

                  The missing child was found.

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                  • #10
                    Thanks for all the replies, time to go searching.

                    Both surviving girls were born in the sub-district of Regent Road Salford in the County of Lancaster 1882 and 1886. Sometime between 1886 and the 1891 census the family moved to Smethwick, Kings Norton, Worcestershire. The family name is Sullivan.

                    Malcolm

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                    • #11
                      If you use Lancsbmd, you can specify Regents Road as a registration district. Unfortunately, Salford haven't transcribed any mother's maiden names but you can still manipulate the information a bit, by looking at the likely forenames for your family and then checking to see if there are any corresponding deaths between census. You should also be able to see those who survived, which will also narrow things down a bit. There aren't all that many Sullivan births in the district for those years. I hope that makes sense!

                      OC

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                      • #12
                        Have you tried lancashire online parish clerk ? or family search.org?
                        OPC, Online Parish Clerk, family history, local history, free data, parish registers, census, Lancashire, รถ

                        I tried looking for Regents Road registration district on on line parish clerk site but it doesnt show up - only the towns in Salford so maybe give that site a go?
                        Angelina

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                        • #13
                          I found this on the Manchester City Council Website

                          Home/Church registers/Regent Road Wesleyan: Salford

                          Baptisms-1865-1972- Archives GB127.M196/9

                          I tried to register but the site wouldn’t accept my U.S. address.

                          My Great Grandparents Thomas Sullivan and Sarah Bayliss were married at Regent Road Wesleyan Chapel on Aug 1881. Their daughters Nellie 1882 and Carrie 1885 were also born in Salford. I think this maybe my best chance of finding the other two children, that is if they were baptized.

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