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Cabinet maker to Parchment Maker

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  • Cabinet maker to Parchment Maker

    Received a Death Cert today hopefully my 3 X Great Grandfather

    he was a Picture Frame Maker then a Cabinet Maker, Cert says Parchment Maker Journeyman would you agree this is him

  • #2
    Hmm, not sure.
    Does the address for the death or usual residence fit with your research so far? What about the informant - same address or different? Was it a relative that you can match up in earlier censuses, marriages or baptisms? Are there any immediate family or relatives at that address in the next census after death? Are any of his children in the parchment making trade on censuses during or after his lifetime from marriages or censuses?
    Last edited by GallowayLass; 18-02-16, 14:18.

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    • #3
      Thanks for responding, I have not heard before of the address he died in, or the informants name and address? but if he was a journeyman maybe he was lodging there.

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      • #4
        What a shame there are no leads from the cert. If he was a journeyman, he should have completed an apprenticeship. Might there be an indenture somewhere or records of a parchment maker's union or guild? I've no personal experience of this area of research. Hopefully someone else will know how to hunt such records down.

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        • #5
          I was so disappointed to see no info on it I knew of.

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          • #6
            Hmm. Picture frame maker and cabinet maker go together but unless he struck out on a new career I would question parchment maker. What relationship to him was the informant? If he died in the workhouse they may not have known exactly what he did and made a guess.
            I just got a cert I was looking for for years but never got because the age and location were out. It turned out (after accessing the lunacy patients entry and discharges on Ancestry) that he was in mental institutions for over 30 years as a private patient. His death cert says 'apparently about 45 years of age'. He was in fact 52. It is an example, I presume, of fairly relaxed record keeping in those days.
            Anne

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            • #7
              thanks Anne I have all the info on him till 1861 it isn't a workhouse he died in I dont think ? am having trouble finding it in 1861 or 1871 if anybody wants to look its
              38 Little George Street Bermondsey

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              • #8


                This is the address in the 1861 census.
                Moggie

                & the 1871 there are 3 more people on the next page.

                Last edited by maudarby; 18-02-16, 16:29.

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                • #9
                  Thanks very much Moggie I should have tried Ancestry, I tried on FMP thinking it would be easier.
                  Dont recognise any of the people as being connected to my lot.
                  I did try and find a George Knight Parchment Maker in 1861 and 1871 born around his Birth year and found nothing, so maybe thats a good sign?

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                  • #10
                    Journeyman just means he had completed his apprenticeship, it's nothing to do with travelling around.

                    I too would want another piece of evidence (or three, actually!) that he went from cabinetmaker/pictureframe maker to parchment maker. Of course, people have always bigged up their jobs, but journeyman is a BIG lie as far as the apprenticeships and guilds were concerned - it's almost like the modern day equivalent of claiming to be a doctor when you're not.

                    OC

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                    • #11
                      I really thought it meant he travelled around oops, thanks OC thing is I have him in 1861 but not in 1871 unless the one visiting his son is him after all? trouble with that one is he gives no occupation.
                      I might go for it and try the next likely one I have trying for a long time to narrow him down.
                      Just had a look at his Wife's Death Cert it says his occupation is Cabinet Maker Journeyman that was in 1863? so maybe it is the wrong one then
                      Last edited by Guest; 18-02-16, 18:37.

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                      • #12
                        Journeyman from the French "Journee" man. A man who has compl;eted his apprenticeship and is now paid by the day for his work (Journee = day.

                        My late FIL was a Journeyman cabinet maker...and he travelled around from job to job, lol!

                        OC

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                        • #13
                          Thanks for the heads up OC, had always thought - quite erroneously - that a journey man was something different. Incidentally my GG g/father went from a cabinet maker to

                          Harmonium maker, apparently in the mid to late 1800's there was a great demand for fancy Harmoniums.
                          Whoever said Seek and Ye shall find was not a genealogist.

                          David

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                          • #14
                            It was often a step between being an employee of someone-else to being self-employed and then eventually having your own business and even employing other to work for you.

                            Jay
                            Janet in Yorkshire



                            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                            • #15
                              A Journeyman became a Master automatically I think, if he employed men and was able to train apprentices.

                              My FIL never had enough money to become a Master. He spent almost seven years of his working life making beautiful bookshelves for a Country House library - I never thought to ask him where it was! He ended his working days in a factory, turning chair legs on a machine. So sad.

                              OC

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                              • #16
                                Agree. OC, but unless he already had money, or came from a moneyed family, he had to work for a bit in order to get enough cash to set up on his own i.e hire premises, buy tools and materials.
                                I have a man who was a master wheelwright, and he eventually passed on the trade to each of his sons in turn, but he was only ever able to employ one at a time. Once a son had served his apprenticeship. he had to work for someone else whilst father trained the next boy. They lived in a smallish village, and although all the farmers would need wagons and carts and wheels, it would have been a great outlay to have enough timber stock seasoning to keep six men in full time employment.

                                Jay
                                Janet in Yorkshire



                                Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                                • #17
                                  very interesting reading, so wish I could go back and see how they lived, well I am giving up on this man now every one I thought could be him isn't.

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                                  • #18
                                    Assuming you are looking at a GRO certificate and not one from the original record, have you considered the possibility of mis-transcription.

                                    With a bit of imagination it is just about possible to see Picture Frame Maker being copied as Parchment Maker in the registrar's quarterly returns if the handwriting was difficult.

                                    It is unlikely, but a possibility none the less.
                                    Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
                                    Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

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                                    • #19
                                      thanks Antony that is a possibility , especially as I cannot find a George Knight right age in 1861 or 1871 as a parchment maker? unless I have missed something.
                                      Last edited by Guest; 19-02-16, 14:12.

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                                      • #20
                                        oops just found a George Knight a Saddler in George Street 1851 Directory, so this is more likely to be him isn't it ? blast.

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