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  • unproved will

    I have found the following information;
    date of will 1808.
    year lodged 1834
    At the top of the page it says that the sub class is wills unproved. How would this happen and is there something that would have happened after this? I should mention that this is an Irish will.
    F

  • #2
    Unproved wills would normally be followed by distribution of the estate according to the law of the land. This could take DECADES, especially if a benefactor on the unproved will decided to fight it in court.

    OC

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you OC. I would love to find out more about this, but I don't hold out much hope!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by fran View Post
        Thank you OC. I would love to find out more about this, but I don't hold out much hope!
        You never know - if it dragged through the courts, you may find newspaper reports. FMP has a big collection of Irish newspapers.
        I see that, like me, you're based in Lancashire so if you don't have an FMP world or Irish sub, you could use your library membership to access the Gale 19th century newspaper collection. From memory, it includes The Freeman's Journal (Dublin-based) and the Belfast News-Letter. I'm not sure if it has other Irish newspapers.

        Speaking of Lancashire libraries, are you aware of the massive cuts that are going to take place as of next June? Forty out of 74 Lancs libraries to close. Grim news!

        More info here in case you're interested:


        Christine
        Researching:
        HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by fran View Post
          Thank you OC. I would love to find out more about this, but I don't hold out much hope!
          But wouldn't there be something about the distribution of the estate in the Death Duty Register (or whatever it's called)? It might tell you everyone who received monies from the estate.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
            Speaking of Lancashire libraries, are you aware of the massive cuts that are going to take place as of next June? Forty out of 74 Lancs libraries to close. Grim news!

            More info here in case you're interested:


            Christine
            That's shocking. A huge cut from a wide range of services. Also spotted are increased charges and reduced hours at the county archives service.
            I wonder what criteria are being used to decide which half of the libraries will close? As a former librarian, every time I hear of library closures, it feels like a bit of a limb being cut off. With the proposed cuts to subsidies and routes for buses, it could well mean folks can't afford to travel to the nearest library that is left open.

            Comment


            • #7
              I live in Cornwall and there are surreptitious plans to close many of the libraries. My local library - which I use every week - is now down to three days a week opening and also houses the Council One Stop office (thus reducing the space available for books).

              The argument is that so many people have Kindles now that libraries will become unused. Well, I don't have a Kindle and I don't want one. I doubt very much if some of the books I've read recently will ever be on Kindle as they are mostly nonfiction reference-type books.

              The County Archives is now closed two days a week and there is a long wait for an appointment, three weeeks the last time I checked. Personally, I'd be prepared to pay a small entrance fee for the Archives, say £5 a session, if it meant the difference between having access or not having access.

              OC

              Comment


              • #8
                Sorry Fran, back to topic:

                Not all estates ever get distributed, for many reasons - no one to do it, no one who knows how to do it, lack of interest etc. Unclaimed estates go to the government or to the Crown in the UK, depending on when and where of course.

                OC

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you all for your replies. I got the information from FMP,but as yet cannot find anything further. I don't know if it will benefit me to try the Gale collection.I will have to investigate. It is shocking that so many libraries could close.I am not convinced that Kindles are wholly to blame.I believe that the number of people visiting libraries has been dropping for years.A couple of months ago I visited Liverpool Central Library and was shocked to find people eating and drinking at the tables. Mind you I was also shocked a few years ago to visit a very small library and find shouty children with their shouty parents! It would have been impossible for anyone to study or concentrate on anything.
                  F

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by fran View Post
                    Thank you all for your replies. I got the information from FMP,but as yet cannot find anything further. I don't know if it will benefit me to try the Gale collection.I will have to investigate. It is shocking that so many libraries could close.I am not convinced that Kindles are wholly to blame.I believe that the number of people visiting libraries has been dropping for years.A couple of months ago I visited Liverpool Central Library and was shocked to find people eating and drinking at the tables. Mind you I was also shocked a few years ago to visit a very small library and find shouty children with their shouty parents! It would have been impossible for anyone to study or concentrate on anything.
                    F
                    Does your FMP sub cover Ireland? If it does, you will find a far more extensive collection of Irish newspapers there than you would on Gale.
                    If not, do you want to post name, location, any other info here and we can get hunting...

                    Christine
                    Researching:
                    HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you Christine. My sub does cover Ireland.The name is Simon Ryan.Residence is The Mansion House ,Crotenstown, Kildare.
                      By the way there are several spellings of Crotenstown! He wrote his Will in 1808 and his name appears in Leets Directory of 1814.
                      This is all I know.
                      F

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The probate file is likely to have been amongst the Church of Ireland papers held in the Four Courts in Dublin, which were destroyed in the 1922 fire. In general, all that remains are the indexes which were kept elsewhere. However the National Archives in Dublin do have some pre 1858 wills, usually because another copy was held somewhere else eg by a solicitor or in the records for a big estate. Always worth checking with them in case they have a copy. Likewise some wills were also registered with the Registry of Deeds in Dublin, and a transcript entered into the Regy of Deeds records. (You can search by name and by townland. However the records are not on-line so you either need to go to Dublin, or order in copies of the relevant microfilms from LDS).

                        The tithe applotment records for Crotanstown for 1827 show the sole tenant as Charles Ryan, with 93 acres. (It includes a map of the townland). By 1853, Griffiths Valuation lists the landlord of plot 1 (45 acres) in Crotanstown as “John Ryan & others.”
                        Elwyn

                        I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by fran View Post
                          Thank you Christine. My sub does cover Ireland.The name is Simon Ryan.Residence is The Mansion House ,Crotenstown, Kildare.
                          By the way there are several spellings of Crotenstown! He wrote his Will in 1808 and his name appears in Leets Directory of 1814.
                          This is all I know.
                          F
                          I think the following newspaper articles are probably something to do with the estate of your Simon - a chancery hearing in 1843 re the Croadenstown (sic) estate of 51 acres etc. As OC says above, disputes could drag on for years in chancery. Hopefully some of names involved will mean something to you. It seems that a Simon Joseph Ryan (son/nephew of your Simon???) was in situ but his claim was being disputed.
                          I haven't got time to look any further at the moment but think you could have a play on FMP just using the surname Ryan and chancery in the optional what else box to see if you can find any earlier references. I'd also try searching for Simon Joseph Ryan for any further disputes and to see if it reveals the connection to your Simon.


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                          and a few months later:
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                          and in 1844
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                          and possibly this too
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                          Christine
                          Last edited by Karamazov; 09-12-15, 14:56.
                          Researching:
                          HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks for your replies.
                            ELwyn,Charles Ryan was the son of Simon. He died in 1849. There were three minor children,John, Mary and Charles.I do not know what happened to the mother.
                            Christine, I only came upon Simon Joseph Ryan yesterday.I have no idea who he is! I hope to find out more and make a connection with Simon senior.
                            F

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