J*** B******** Dolphin

[Old Supporter]

I cannot find the birth record of my cousin J*** B******** Dolphin

His parents were William Edward James Dolphin who was born in Gosport in1902, and his mother was Ethel Violet Dolphin nee Bannister who was born in Hartley Wintney, Hampshire in1894. They married in 1928 in Croydon.

William was in the Royal Navy so wasn't at home much. Ethel Violet died in 1939 and is buried in Elmers End, Beckenham ( I have the official internment card listing grave number)

ci934 they had a son * * Dolphin, who was about 2 years older than me, but I can find no record for him. I know that at a later date William retired from the Royal Navy and settled in Gibralter.

I have found a record of a Master J*** Dolphin aged 13, sailing on the ss Staffordshire from Liverpool to Gibraltar on 29th July 1948, and it gives the last UK address as The Manor House, Bradninch, Exeter, Devon. If this is him I cannot find a link on how he would be in Devon, or who with. He was still a schoolboy, and would have had to have been taken in by someone following his mothers death.


Any clues would be appreciated

Arthur

Sorry Arthur, but until we can find a likely death for him I am afraid I have had to remove his name. If he was born around 1934 he could still be alive and our T&C's don't allow the names to be posted of anyone who may be living.

[margaretmarch]

I can't see a birth under either surname - in case your cousin was born before the marriage.

Also can't see a death or marriage for him in England & Wales.

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

Just thinking about it Ethel would have been 32 when she married William and 38 when she had J. so I am wondering could he have been adopted?

Found Ethel in 1911 here http://search.ancestry.co.uk//cgi-bi...off=&ml_rpos=9

How do you know J*** B Dolphin was born c1934?

Margaret

Sorry Margaret - as above

[margaretmarch]

Searching on FreeBMD I found this

Dec 1927 Bannister, J*** E MMN: Bannister, District Bourne, Vol 7a, Page 511 - Bourne is in Lincolnshire.

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

Here's the death for William Edward James Dolphin

William Edward J Dolphin
Birth Date: 12 May 1902
Date of Registration: Mar 1972
Age at Death: 69
Registration district: Surrey North Western
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 5g
Page: 751

Might be worth getting the death cert to see who registered it.

Also found his Navy record http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...&rhSource=7579

Margaret

[Richard in Perth]

But the passenger list has J*** as aged 13 in 1948 - i.e. born 1934/35. Passenger list feels right if his father had retired to Gibraltar - maybe his son remained in UK whilst at school then joined him once he had finished his study? (which might be why there is no marriage or death for J in UK?). I'm more inclined to go with the adoption theory, though it's also possible that he could have been born overseas, especially since his father was in the Navy. William's Naval records are on FMP but unfortunately they only go up to 1929 - not late enough to see where he was when J*** was born.

[margaretmarch]

Here's the marriage record for Ethel and William

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=SurreyMarriages&h=2585466&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=60522

You're lucky it will save buying a marriage certificate.

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

Just thinking about it Ethel would have been 32 when she married William and 38 when she had J so I am wondering could he have been adopted?

Found Ethel in 1911 here http://search.ancestry.co.uk//cgi-bi...off=&ml_rpos=9

How do you know J*** B Dolphin was born c1934?

Margaret

Sorry Margaret - as above

Sorry Chrissie - got carried away! (men in white coats!).
Margaret

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Perhaps by the 1930's Bradninch Manor was used as a boarding school for boys with naval connections?

Jay

[SmallTownGirl]

Have you found the family on the 1939 register?

Does the address Heatherland, Chobham Road, Camberley, Surrey mean anything to you?

[Old Supporter]

Thanks for all your imputs. It was never suggested in the family that he was adopted, and c1934 was always given as his birthday. There are links fromn the wider family of braches living in Surrey , Sussex and Hampshire, but no link to Lincolnshire. I can remember being handed down a boys sailor suit.

I already have a copy of the 1901 Census, which shows her mother being Frances Bannister listed as wife, and head of the household. Being as nearly all my ancestors from the Dolphin side wer e in the Royal Navy, I wonder if George Bannister was as well. Thanks for the Navy Record, it shows his last rank as being Boatswain, which is what he retired as. It would be interesting to know what happened to him after 1929.

It is of course possible J B D was born overseas, although I can't remember anything like that being mentioned. I have a feeling that William Edward married again while living in Gibraltar, but no proof, the thought in my mind is that he married a Spanish Woman, from a fairly rich family. I do know that his financial position was good enough to tell thr RN Pension People where to stick their measly pension.

Arthur

[Richard in Perth]

Ah - just found this passenger list...

Name: Mrs Ethel Violet Dolphin
Gender: Female
Age: 53
Birth Date: abt 1880
Departure Date: 27 Oct 1933
Port of Departure: London, England
Destination Port: Malta
Ship Name: Bendigo
Official Number: 145603
Master: F N Wyatt

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=ukoutwardpassengerlists&gss=angs-d&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=ethel&gsfn_x=1&gsln=dolphin&gsln_x=NN&cp=0&catbucket=rstp&MSAV=1&uidh=nv2&pcat=40&fh=0&h=143754786&recoff=7+9&ml_rpos=1

The age is way out, but the address she gave on the manifest was 10 Enmore Ave, South Norwood - which is the same address that she gave at her marriage in 1928, so it must be her (i.e. the age must have been recorded incorrectly on the passenger list - she was actually 39). Now - if she was heading to Malta in 1933, then just possibly that could be where to look for her son J***'s birth also, later in 1933 or 1934?

[Richard in Perth]

William's probate:

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=dolphin&yearOfDeath=1972&page=2#calendar

DOLPHIN William Edward James of Janoway Hill Firbank La Woking died 2 February 1972 Probate Newcastle upon Tyne 24 October. £1180.

[margaretmarch]

Ah - just found this passenger list...

Name: Mrs Ethel Violet Dolphin
Gender: Female
Age: 53
Birth Date: abt 1880
Departure Date: 27 Oct 1933
Port of Departure: London, England
Destination Port: Malta
Ship Name: Bendigo
Official Number: 145603
Master: F N Wyatt

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=ukoutwardpassengerlists&gss=angs-d&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=ethel&gsfn_x=1&gsln=dolphin&gsln_x=NN&cp=0&catbucket=rstp&MSAV=1&uidh=nv2&pcat=40&fh=0&h=143754786&recoff=7+9&ml_rpos=1

The age is way out, but the address she gave on the manifest was 10 Enmore Ave, South Norwood - which is the same address that she gave at her marriage in 1928, so it must be her (i.e. the age must have been recorded incorrectly on the passenger list - she was actually 39). Now - if she was heading to Malta in 1933, then just possibly that could be where to look for her son J***'s birth also, later in 1933 or 1934?

Good find!
Her ticket number is 53 so a simple clerical error.

Margaret

[Old Supporter]

Thank you for the info on Ethel Violet sailing to Malta. That being the case her son could well have been born there. What is absolutely correct is that she must have returned to the UK as she died in April 1939 aged 45 in Surrey. I have the printed card saying that she was interred in the Crystal Palace District Cemetry, Elmers End, Beckenham, in Private Grave No.17071.

That is really interesting about the probate report. Once he had retired from the Navy and remarried, he disappeared from the family radar, but it was never thought that he returned to live in England. But it seems too much of a co-incidence that someone else of the same full name born on the same date could exist.

Arthur

[margaretmarch]

Thank you for the info on Ethel Violet sailing to Malta. That being the case her son could well have been born there. What is absolutely correct is that she must have returned to the UK as she died in April 1939 aged 45 in Surrey. I have the printed card saying that she was interred in the Crystal Palace District Cemetry, Elmers End, Beckenham, in Private Grave No.17071.

That is really interesting about the probate report. Once he had retired from the Navy and remarried, he disappeared from the family radar, but it was never thought that he returned to live in England. But it seems too much of a co-incidence that someone else of the same full name born on the same date could exist.

Arthur

Well - I'll 'eat my hat' if it wasn't him!

Margaret

[Sylvia C]

If you buy that will, you should find out whether there was any family still alive ..... ie, who Probate was granted to, who were the Executors, and the names of anyone mentioned in the will.

[Richard in Perth]

Yes definitely him. I've also just found more on his Naval career via the Navy Lists which are on Ancestry - he is listed by his initials only, i.e. "W E J Dolphin", which is why I missed him yesterday:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=UKNavyLists&gss=sfs28_ms_r_db&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=w%20e%20j&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=dolphin&gsln_x=XO&MSAV=0&uidh=nv2

These records would suggest that he remained with the Navy until at least 1948, by which time he was "Cd. Boatswain", based in the Gibraltar dockyards. Also, in 1935 he was listed as being on the HMS Resolution - which was part of the Mediterranean Fleet, based at Malta at the time - so it all seems to fit!

I would guess from all this that Ethel travelled out to be with William when she was pregnant, had her son over in Malta either late 1934 or 1935, then returned to UK shortly afterwards. When she died in 1939, her son was then either cared for by relatives or at an orphanage, possibly in Devon, until he was old enough to leave school and travel to Gibraltar and see his father. Interesting that the last Naval list for William is 1948 which is the year his son (aged 13) travelled to Gibraltar - so maybe that is when William retired? I can't find his second marriage - nothing is listed on the British Overseas marriage index for him, so presumably the marriage wasn't registered with the British consulate. Whatever, it seems as though the family story about William re-marrying into money might have been exaggerated, since he only seems to have left a modest amount according to the probate record!

Cheers, Richard

Edit to say: I agree with Sylvia - a copy of the will would be the next logical step to follow as this might give you his 2nd wife's name and also tell you whether his son was around, and if so then where he was.

[Richard in Perth]

I think I've found J*** - travelling to Montreal on the Carinthia on 6-Aug-1958. The manifest gives his d.o.b. as 16-May-1935, address as 17 Frederick Rd, Erdington Surrey and his occupation as Mechanic - does that sound possible? Country of intended future residence given as England, so it looks like he was just visiting, not emigrating.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=ukoutwardpassengerlists&gss=angs-d&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&gsfn=john&gsfn_x=1&gsln=dolphin&gsln_x=1&MSAV=0&cp=0&catbucket=rstp&pcat=40&fh=13&h=143529953&recoff=6+7&ml_rpos=14

[Tora]

Arthur,

Seems like you are getting a lot of good help on here. Am going away for a fortnight in 2 days time so won't be able to do any research until I get back. Will be interested to see what else the forum comes up with. If you don't want to buy the will I will get it. Only heard about * * Dolphin from Ken.

Regards

Tora (Lynda)