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John Robertson Hendry: possible brick wall - how to proceed?

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  • John Robertson Hendry: possible brick wall - how to proceed?

    Hi all,

    I've been managing to piece together two of my mother's family trees over the past few months, and thanks in no small part to the fantastic effort demonstrated by a few people from this forum among others.

    However, I have hit a possible brick wall and simply don't know how to proceed, as I've so far been unable to track down any relatives who may be able to help me with names and dates, and I can't find any information on publicly upload family trees.

    I am attempting to trace the descendants of one of my great-grandmother's brothers, John Robertson Hendry. I have birth, marriage and death certificates for John from ScotlandsPeople, and I have a likely date of death for his widow, who I do not believe re-married. There's also a probate entry for John on Ancestry (the Scottish will & probate records went up only a week or two ago) which gives his address and the name of his widow.

    However, I am not completely sure what his children were called and so, given that they will have been born in Scotland, I am having great difficulty in moving forward. Yes, SP does have its advantages in the form of 5 credit certificates, but in my experience attempting to trace births without knowing the exact details is essentially impossible. :(

    On my notes (written some twenty years ago) I have John's children as being: 'Sam Hendry, Anna Hendry in Sheffield.' Just as written, so I don't know if these are both his children or whether Sam married Anna. I can't even be sure the names are correct, though I'll assume they are. Presumably one or both of them moved to Sheffield at some point as they won't have been born in Sheffield, and yet I can't find a record of an Anna Hendry being born in Scotland.

    John was born in 1885 and died in 1921; he married in 1915 and so logically any children will have been born between 1915 and 1921. There are two or three Samuel Hendrys born in Glasgow between those dates, but there are no certificates available to view and I don't really want to spend £12 a pop to find out.

    What do you all think? Ideally I don't want to have to wait until the 1921 census. :D
    Eighteen -- Hadleigh, Suffolk; Reading, Berkshire
    Hendry -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire
    Wylie -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire

  • #2
    From the probate, John married Lydia Kemp, there is a marriage 1897 in York, is this the information you have?
    Elaine

    Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

    http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
    http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Wrong John, Elaine. Probably my fault, sorry.

      His wife was Mary Jane Johnston. He died at 7 James Orr Street, on the probate link above.
      Eighteen -- Hadleigh, Suffolk; Reading, Berkshire
      Hendry -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire
      Wylie -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire

      Comment


      • #4
        Have you obtained the will? He may name his children in it, although they would have been very young.
        Anne

        Comment


        • #5
          I would be inclined to work with what you know for definite.

          What were the names of the parents of John Robertson Hendry and Mary Jane Johnston?

          Orr Street is in Glasgow Calton district

          There were four children registered there between 1915 and 1922

          Names and dates removed - possibly still living

          Vera
          Last edited by JudithM; 21-11-15, 14:35. Reason: Removed details of possibly living persons

          Comment


          • #6
            John's parents were Samuel Hendry and Annie Brown, who died in 1940 and 1928 respectively. I have a fair amount of information on the rest of the family.

            Mary Jane's parents were Joseph Johnston and Annie Russell, according to John & Mary Jane's marriage certificate.

            John Brown Hendry is not a bad candidate, actually -- John after his father, and Brown was a very common middle name in that family, after Annie Brown. Several of John's brothers and nephews used the name Brown Hendry rather than just Hendry.E

            EDIT: Damn, no birth certificate available. :(

            Whoever he was, this is likely his marriage index:

            1 1943 HENDRY JOHN BROWN BUNTAIN CATHERINE GREENOCK WEST /RENFREW 564/02 0151
            Last edited by James18; 21-11-15, 11:32.
            Eighteen -- Hadleigh, Suffolk; Reading, Berkshire
            Hendry -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire
            Wylie -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire

            Comment


            • #7
              FYI, John's address on his marriage certificate (1915) is 73 Alexandra Parade, Glasgow, which was his father's house. I don't know when they moved to James Orr Street, assuming that was John's house and not just the place he died. I don't know which address the children would have been born at, but I shall follow up this John Brown Hendry.
              Last edited by James18; 21-11-15, 11:41.
              Eighteen -- Hadleigh, Suffolk; Reading, Berkshire
              Hendry -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire
              Wylie -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire

              Comment


              • #8
                Catherine's death is here, but I can't find a death for John. Hmm.

                1 1975 HENDRY CATHERINE Not Permissible BUNTAIN F 67 GREENOCK /RENFREW
                Eighteen -- Hadleigh, Suffolk; Reading, Berkshire
                Hendry -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire
                Wylie -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Anne in Carlisle View Post
                  Have you obtained the will? He may name his children in it, although they would have been very young.
                  Anne
                  Got it just now with my last ten credits. It does say that he left lawful issue, but unfortunately no names are mentioned. :(
                  Eighteen -- Hadleigh, Suffolk; Reading, Berkshire
                  Hendry -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire
                  Wylie -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
                    I would be inclined to work with what you know for definite.

                    What were the names of the parents of John Robertson Hendry and Mary Jane Johnston?

                    Orr Street is in Glasgow Calton district

                    There were four children registered there between 1915 and 1922


                    Vera
                    James Orr Street, not Orr Street.

                    AFAIK this street was in Dennistoun and has since been demolished.
                    Last edited by JudithM; 21-11-15, 14:36. Reason: Removed details of possibly living persons
                    Eighteen -- Hadleigh, Suffolk; Reading, Berkshire
                    Hendry -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire
                    Wylie -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Looking at Dennistoun births, I think it's probably the following, which would also match the two names I have... and looking at the name of Mary's mother...
                      Last edited by JudithM; 22-11-15, 07:58. Reason: Removed details of possibly living persons
                      Eighteen -- Hadleigh, Suffolk; Reading, Berkshire
                      Hendry -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire
                      Wylie -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Oops that will teach me not to post early mornings

                        Sorry to the Mods for the posting of late birth dates and to you James 18 for setting you off on a wild goose chase with the Calton regs.

                        The two for Dennistoun look good. Will see what SP will allow us to see.

                        Vera

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No obvious marriages for an Annie R. One possible for a Samuel M but the M is for McIlhone.

                          The only Sheffield connection I can see is a death in 1992 of a Samuel

                          Very obvious death reg for Mary Jane. The cert may show one of the children as informants.

                          Unfortunately as you say no images for the dc of Mary Jane or the bcs of Samuel or Annie

                          Vera

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            1944 Annie R. One Possible marriage to a chap called Darley. Blythswood.

                            Vera

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              @JudithM

                              Both Sam and Annie Russell Hendry are dead. No need to censor their names.

                              @vera

                              Thanks for your help, and yes, that is the correct marriage. Annie married a Yorkshireman named William Leslie Darley, and they then moved down to Sheffield and started a family. I've found the details for their family as the children and grandchildren all seem to have been born in England, which makes things much easier. Both Annie and William are listed on the England & Wales probate register, so I know when they died. William's date of birth is on his death entry on Ancestry, but I don't have Annie's.

                              As for Sam, I was able to work out his marriage eventually. Unfortunately it's not too uncommon a name and I had absolutely no other information to work on, but I did find a Sam Hendry - Matilda Broadley marriage in Glasgow in 1940, and so I suspected this was him but couldn't prove it. I then tried to work out who the other possible Matilda Broadleys were and who they married. I found a Matilda Margaret Broadley and ruled her out, and then found a woman named Matilda Barr Hendry who married a John Aldeson in 1961. I then found a death entry for a Matilda Barr Hendry (other names: Broadley, Aldeson) in 1998, and thought that must be the same woman and that she divorced Sam and re-married this Aldeson guy.

                              Finally, when doing Hendry - Broadley searches I kept seeing this one name: Owen Broadley Hendry. I thought it would have been a strange coincidence, but the name Owen meant nothing to me as far as the Hendry lineage goes. Anyway, I took a punt and paid the 5 credits to view the death certificate, and it was for a son of Samuel Hendry (coal miner) and Matilda Barr Broadley, aged 1 month in Springburn, Glasgow in 1947. The informant was what looks like Owen Broadley (uncle), so presumably this is Matilda's brother.

                              So, without being 100%, I am pretty sure (and certainly hopeful) that I have the same Sam Hendry and his family here. Unfortunately I have no other names to go on and so can't find out who the other children would have been. It's a shame none of these people have certificates on SP that you can buy with credits. =/

                              Where now?
                              Eighteen -- Hadleigh, Suffolk; Reading, Berkshire
                              Hendry -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire
                              Wylie -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I can see where you found a possible Sheffield connection James. As Vera said, there is a possible death for Samuel in Dec 1992 in Sheffield aged 74 - but birth of 26 May 1918 is slightly out. There are also 4 possible births in Sheffield from 1947 to 1958 in Sheffield if that was his sisters marriage that Vera found. I can't find a death for the sister though and the odd thing is that when I did a free search on .192 she seemed to be living with one of her sons from 2002-2010 but was listed as 51-55 age range. She would of course have been more like 83-91. I wondered if it was the sons wife but the name was wrong. They could of course have got muddled as that would have been the age of the son.
                                Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Sorry James, just spotted your last post. I was busy researching at the same time as I was posting.
                                  Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 22-11-15, 12:23.
                                  Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    So James, just getting my head around this. Are you are still looking for a definite date of birth for Annie R. If so, what was the date of Annie R's death on the probate record?

                                    Not sure about that marriage re Sam. I seem to remember getting quite a list of Samuel's on SP. The M I now know was for Male and not a second name. I wonder why Uncle was informant for the child. Pity that marriage wasn't a slightly earlier one.

                                    Just re-read your post. Perhaps Samuel died pre 1961 and after 1947.

                                    Vera
                                    Last edited by vera2013; 22-11-15, 13:51.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Hi all, thanks for the feedback. I'll try to bring you up to speed with my research.

                                      @Chrissie

                                      Having already been down that route, the Sheffield connection is potentially misleading; there are indeed several Hendrys in Sheffield and I actually phoned one a month or so back to try to establish if I had the right family, but it's a red herring. The guy I spoke to was in his 60s and said his father and grandfather (and possibly further back than that) were all Samuel Hendrys, and so I probably had the wrong family. Given the ages, I can't see how he'd fit into my family tree.

                                      It all stems from the fact that I have some of my uncle's notes from about twenty years ago that list various family relationships, and this has been the basis for my research. On these notes, next to John's name it just says 'Samuel, Anna Hendry in Sheffield' -- that's all I had to go on, and so I wasn't sure if Anna was even his daughter, or was Sam's wife. I also had no idea whether they both lived in Sheffield, or just Anna. This is how the confusion started, and I began looking into Hendrys born and married in Sheffield... which yields plenty of results, but as far as I know these are all a different family.

                                      So, the people we're looking for in Sheffield would be Darleys, not Hendrys.

                                      I knew that John and Mary married in 1915 and that he died in 1921, so their children would have had to have been born in Glasgow during that period. I was then able to find out (from another forum) that James Orr Street (since demolished) was in the Dennistoun district, and the list of Hendry children born in that district during that period wasn't a long one -- one was Samuel in 1917 (the most common male name in the family, John's father) and another was Annie Russell in 1919, which was the maiden name of Mary Jane Johnston's mother, which I discovered by looking at John & Mary's marriage certificate.

                                      Also, there is a death entry on SP for a Samuel Hendry in 1984, mother's name Johnston. The age given is 67, and so that fits the aforementioned 1917 birth, which I'm happy with. I would therefore suggest that this is the same Samuel Hendry born in Dennistoun in 1917. His mother's name was Mary Jane Johnston.

                                      Matilda Barr Broadley, Samuel's wife (I think...) died in Glasgow in 1998, in the same district - Martha St. - as Samuel. I am by no means certain that I have the right Samuel and thus the right marriage, but I'm reasonably confident I do, and I can't find any plausible alternatives.

                                      @vera

                                      DARLEY ANNE RUSSELL 09 December 2009 3170115 10 October 2009 Grant and will Leeds

                                      DARLEY WILLIAM LESLIE 15 March 1999 88190 08 January 1999 Grant and will Leeds

                                      Leeds would be the nearest registration office for Sheffield -- William died there (you can see on Ancestry) and I would bet that Annie did as well.

                                      If we can find a birth date for Annie then that would be great. I've managed to do most of her family thanks to Ancestry, as it seems her children were all born in Sheffield. I can usually get the odd detail by Googling or using 192.com, but generally I doubt I am going to get any more information for that family.

                                      Sam is by far the trickier of the two, as his children would all have been born in Glasgow and I don't have any names to go on. I've tried the ones I'd expect: Samuel, John Robertson, Johnston, Broadley, etc. I've only found Owen Broadley Hendry so far, as already mentioned. I wish there were more certificates available to view on SP. :(

                                      As for Samuel dying pre-1961... possible, and I have considered it, but I am reasonably certain that the Sam Hendry who died in 1984 with mother's name Johnston is the same as the one born in 1917 in Dennistoun, who would almost certainly be John & Mary Jane's son. However, I know it's best not to get tunnel vision with these things, and I'm happy to take any advice to the contrary.

                                      Incidentally, I have had a cousin of my grandmother's confirm that John's children were called Samuel and Annie, and that she wasn't aware of there being any more.

                                      My main goal at this point is to find out if Sam and Matilda had any other children, what they were called and what happened to them. I realize it's likely some/all would still be alive, though, so we will probably have to exchange PMs on the subject. I doubt Owen was their only child, but I concede that it is possible.

                                      Anyway... that's enough for now. Any other questions? :D
                                      Last edited by James18; 22-11-15, 16:25.
                                      Eighteen -- Hadleigh, Suffolk; Reading, Berkshire
                                      Hendry -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire
                                      Wylie -- Ballymena, Antrim; Glasgow, Lanarkshire

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        It's the Darley children I was talking about James. Incidentally, the second child, a boy, died in the same year.
                                        If you have access to the full .192 you could get the other two boys addresses.
                                        Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                                        Comment

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