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RoseR
17-10-15, 15:49
Hello,
This is my first post and I'm hoping someone will be able to offer advice on what seems to be an impenetrable brick wall:

Ada Harrison, nee Godwin was born in Berkshire in 1870. She seems to have gone into service, like her sisters, in London. In 1888 she somehow got herself across the Atlantic to marry a Maynard Harrison in Pennsylvania. She was just 17 but a copy of the marriage documents show she lied about her age and pretended to be 21.

She and Maynard had two sons, Richard and William. In 1897 the family returned to the UK, but the marriage already seemed to be in trouble. Then in 1907 Maynard returned to the US with William and from then on Ada referred to herself as a widow.

1928 found Ada again crossing the Atlantic, this time on her way to Mexico. Her son Richard was working for an oil company out there and his wife had just died, leaving him with two daughters. The 1930 US Census shows her still with Richard and his daughters in Mexico.

Shortly after this I picked them up crossing the border between Mexico and Texas, en route to visit a relative in Los Angeles. This is this last sighting I have of Ada. The !940 Census shows Richard and his younger daughter, also called Ada, resident in Texas. It shows they were also there in 1935. There is no trace of Ada senior anywhere on that census.

Neither is there any trace of her on the UK Incoming Passenger Lists. A relative, who has since died, believed she'd met Ada sometime in the 1930s in the UK. She also believed she'd been told of Ada's death in the early 1940s.

I would very much like to find out where and when she died but there are too many Ada Harrisons around the right age on the UK Death Index. I have no idea where she would have been living if she was in the UK. There's no permanent address for her after she returned with her family in 1897. On the 1901 and 1911 Censuses she was visiting other people on census night. She had family members in Berkshire and London, but that doesn't help. I feel she may have died in the US but have only limited access to their records. She had a relation in Los Angeles and her son in Texas, but I have no idea where else to look.

I really can't see the wood for the trees. Can anyone suggest any way round, or over, this brick wall.

PhotoFamily
17-10-15, 16:01
The 1930 US Census shows her still with Richard and his daughters in Mexico.

Hi, RoseR-
Welcome to FTF!

Could you clarify the above? The US census doesn't cover Mexico - were they in New Mexico?

Also, would you give links to the 1930 census, the border crossing, and the 1940 census records?

Thanks!
Sarah

clematised
17-10-15, 16:11
Genes Reunited has several of the name Ada Godwin in trees there, one member has 1873 Newbury, Berkshire, member Joan, another has 1870 Cold Ash, Berkshire, member Evelyn

Edna

RoseR
17-10-15, 17:39
Thank you PhotoFamily and clematised for your replies. With regard to the Genes Reunited website, I'm aware of the entry by Joan and the one by Evelyn is actually me.

I apologise for misleading you with regard to the 1930 Census. I actually meant the 1930 Mexico National Census, which I found on FamilySearch. In fact all my US references come from that website. Below I give the links to the two censuses and the border crossing. I'm aware that Ada's son Richard also did the crossing in 1924.

1930 Mexico Census: https://familysearch.org/ark:61903/1:1:MQ8F-YPL

1930 Border Crossing: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X225-S2Q

1940 US Census: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K4SP-FPT

Any advice greatly appreciated. This one has bothered me for years.

RoseR
17-10-15, 17:48
Hi again, I've just tried those links and the first one doesn't work, although I've checked on the FamilySeach website and it's correct. I made a mistake on the second one: it should be https://familysearch.org/ark:61903/1:1:22S-S2X The 3rd one is definitely correct.

clematised
17-10-15, 18:15
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVPF-5G3V is this her going to New York in 1887 on the City of Chester

Edna

Val wish Id never started
17-10-15, 18:55
if there was a possibility she was in Berkshire there is a burial of an Ada Harrison age 68 died 24 Feb 1936 buried 27 Feb 1836 All Saints Didcot residence Didcot 200 Broadway

Elaine
17-10-15, 22:25
On the border crossing,

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gss=angs-c&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=ada&gsfn_x=0&gsln=harrison&gsln_x=0&msbdy=1870&cp=0&MSAV=0&uidh=euf&pcat=40&h=520316&db=MexBorder&indiv=1&ml_rpos=9

does it say medical certificate attached ? I can't make out the rest once you rotate the image and look at the other card

...after 2 acute / asthmatory ??? possibly

PhotoFamily
17-10-15, 23:44
On the border crossing,

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gss=angs-c&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=ada&gsfn_x=0&gsln=harrison&gsln_x=0&msbdy=1870&cp=0&MSAV=0&uidh=euf&pcat=40&h=520316&db=MexBorder&indiv=1&ml_rpos=9

does it say medical certificate attached ? I can't make out the rest once you rotate the image and look at the other card

...after 2 acute / asthmatory ??? possibly

The second page of the card
Medical Certificate Attached
a?? 2 Acute inflamatory condition
Part of body affected: neuritis (?maybe?) lower i????
?? ??? ???

Significant is that first part of card still indicates she is a UK citizen. I can't read the line underneath that line,
Next line seems to indicate her intended US address 1888 ??? Homestead Pa (Pennsylvania)

If she were ill at the time, perhaps she died in PA?

PhotoFamily
17-10-15, 23:49
This is the link I'm getting to the Mexican 1930 census:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQ8F-YP5
And Richard is a widower in the census.

PhotoFamily
17-10-15, 23:51
This link
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X225-S2Q
is leading me to a US-Canada crossing of Harvey Armstrong Harris, who was born in 1881 in Ontario

PhotoFamily
18-10-15, 05:08
Next line seems to indicate her intended US address 1888 ??? Homestead Pa (Pennsylvania)

If she were ill at the time, perhaps she died in PA?

Homestead is about 7 miles from Pleasant Hill, where this cemetery is:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=harrison&GSfn=ada&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSst=40&GScnty=2242&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GRid=59023533&df=all&

Go findagrave - yet again.

Of course, you'd need more info to confirm.

PhotoFamily
18-10-15, 05:23
You could try contacting the memorial page creator/manager, and ask him if he knows more, or has a photo. I think he would have put dates on if he had had them from the gravestone. You could also ask him if he has any suggestions for locating more info.

You could also contact the cemetery directly:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=cr&GSln=harrison&GSfn=ada&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSst=40&GScnty=2242&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GRid=59023533&CRid=45197&df=all&

It's been a while, but if the cemetery office still exists, they might have records for the grave, and be able to tell you who bought the plot, and when this Ada was buried. And who knows, ask if they have the obit!

You could call the local public library, and ask for a librarian, then ask if they have suggestions for getting more info:
http://carnegieofhomestead.com/library/

You could ask this guy if he would help you:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~njm1/jefrsonmem-ph.htm

that's a lot to start with. You could also try posting on various boards (ancestry, for instance) and see if someone local could investigate for you.

Good luck!

RoseR
18-10-15, 11:35
Thank you all for your responses. To answer your questions:

The Ada Goodwin on the City of Chester passenger list is a possibility. Godwin often becomes Goodwin. I also have a possible crossing from Liverpool to Philadelphia in Aug 1887: this is an Ada Godwin aged 15. She was actually 16 at the time and I'm doubtful, but haven't yet found anything else. I've assumed that she went out nearer nearer her marriage in April 1888. She was so young anyway and I wonder how she achieved it. She made two visits home in 1889/90 and each time she returned to the US via New York.

I've looked at the death in Didcot previously, but can't make any connections with there any more than anywhere else. My problem is that if she died in the UK it could have been anywhere really, apart from her home village which was quite a way from Didcot. Even by putting in her exact year of birth it still throws up a number of possibilities. It's rather expensive to have to buy certificates when I have no idea where she was or even if her age was correct.

As to the medical certificate: it says acute inflammatory condition - neuritis lower extremities, which I assume means her feet. Neuritis is painful but not dangerous as such. From what I've read it's usually a complication of another condition. But she'd lived in the heat of Mexico for two years and I don't suppose that helped. The border crossing papers are hard to read, but I do know what the reference to Pennsylvania means. That's where she and her husband were living after their marriage and it's where their two sons were born. Her son Richard is having a bit of trouble. He has a UK passport but he's saying he was born in Pennsylvania, a fact endorsed by his Mum, who should know. It appears he tried to dodge the Draft in 1917 by saying he was born in the UK and therefore wasn't an American citizen. His parents were born in the UK, he was born in the US. I'm not sure if that would give him dual citizenship, but he didn't want to fight in the war. Now he wants to go to Los Angeles, where his paternal aunt lives, to sort it out. It's a very complicated story!

That's Richard on the Mexico Census and he was a widower. I assume his Mum Ada went out to help him with his two daughters. This is a really tough one.

PhotoFamily
18-10-15, 15:25
RoseR -
I'm favoring that that grave on findagrave is your Ada.

I was ruminating after I went to bed: I think the best approach is to call the cemetery (telephone number on that second findagrave link I posted) and determine when that Ada Harrison was buried. If that person died after the border crossing, but before the 1940 census, then I would obtain the death certificate. It appears you can buy it online thru VitalChek (search "VitalChek" - http://www.health.pa.gov/MyRecords/Certificates/Pages/11596.aspx)

Hope you'll let us know what turns up!

RoseR
19-10-15, 15:19
Thank you so much for that PhotoFamily. I've just sent an email to the cemetery, which is still in use, asking them for anything they can give me. I'm not sure if this will work out, as I can't see what the heck she was doing back in Allegheny, but in this game anything's possible.It never crossed my mind to look there and I have no access to Pennsylvania death records. I've got fingers, and everything else, crossed and will of course let you know the outcome. Thank you for finding it for me.

PhotoFamily
19-10-15, 19:29
Thank you so much for that PhotoFamily. just sent an email to the cemetery, which is still in use, asking them for anything they can give me. I'm not sure if this will work out, as I can't see what the heck she was doing back in Allegheny
It was the border crossing doc that made me think to look there - I suspect someone she knew/was related to, lived there. There are ways of looking up US census by address. Might be interesting to see who was there in the 1930 and 1940 - but I think you'd need a clearer image to determine the exact address.

PhotoFamily
21-10-15, 04:35
She and Maynard had two sons, Richard and William. In 1897 the family returned to the UK, but the marriage already seemed to be in trouble. Then in 1907 Maynard returned to the US with William and from then on Ada referred to herself as a widow.

So, are these people in this family somehow? William Harrison, Sr and son William Harrison, Jr, both born England, living in Homestead, PA
1930: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XCHV-P7G
1940: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KQQQ-VV9

If we could get a clean copy of the border record, we might see the actual address that she said she was going to, but the address on these census records do not have a house number, 1888

RoseR
21-10-15, 16:09
Wrong people I'm afraid. Ada's son was called William but her estranged husband's first name was Maynard. He was born in Wales and William in Allegheny.
I do have the actual address where Ada and Richard said they were going . It took my cousin and I a lot of head scratching to work it out but it's no help I'm afraid. It's the address of Ada's sister-in-law in Los Angeles. The name is Lillian Loveday, although the border records show it as Lovelady. The address is 3484 Jean Franco Street Los Angeles. Lillian appears there on the 1930 census, along with her husband George. By 1940 George is shown as a widower, Lillian presumably having died.
I'm still waiting hopefully for a reply from the cemetery, but nothing so far. I do appreciate your interest. I've just got too close to it and just go round in circles.

webwiz
21-10-15, 19:54
Not sure if it helps but a Maynard Harrison travelled from Tampico, Mexico to New York in 1913

Karamazov
21-10-15, 20:27
RoseR,
I was just wondering if you had been able to track what happened to Maynard and son William once they went back to America in 1907 in case that might offer any clues re Ada. Is there any evidence that Ada and William stayed in touch or were they estranged?

Christine

PhotoFamily
22-10-15, 03:24
I do have the actual address where Ada and Richard said they were going . It took my cousin and I a lot of head scratching to work it out but it's no help I'm afraid. It's the address of Ada's sister-in-law in Los Angeles. The name is Lillian Loveday, although the border records show it as Lovelady. The address is 3484 Jean Franco Street Los Angeles. Lillian appears there on the 1930 census, along with her husband George. By 1940 George is shown as a widower, Lillian presumably having died.

We're not talking about the same line. I'm talking about the line above Linda's address. I thought it said "Home in US". What I thought was an address is actually the years of residence.

This is a description of the form:
Form 543, Form 548-B, or Form 1-448, Manifest, includes the person's name, age, sex, marital status, place of birth, physical description, occupation, citizenship ("nationality"), race, ability to read and write, place of last permanent residence, port and date of arrival, destination, purpose for entering the U.S., intention of becoming a U.S. citizen, head tax status, and previous citizenships. It also includes the name and address of the friend or relative whom the alien intended to join, persons accompanying the alien, and the name and address of the alien's nearest relative or friend in the country from which he or she came. If the alien had ever been in the U.S. in the past, the dates and places of such residence or visitation are indicated. It may also indicate the person's head tax status or action taken by a Board of Special Inquiry. The manifests may include a photograph of the alien, sometimes with spouse and minor children.. Emphasis added.
found here:
https://www.archives.gov/research/microfilm/m1504.pdf

Using that information to again examine the line above Linda's address, it would appear Ada lived in Homestead PA from 1888 to 1898.

Did you know that previously?

Did Maynard have any sibs? Homestead's not a big place. Another Harrison family from England in that town could well be related.

If you haven't been able to trace Maynard, well, I know a branch of my family that left England to go to the US - my several times-great-uncle changed his name. It's only known because of letters written at the time.

RoseR
22-10-15, 11:00
Thank you all for continuing to take an interest. To answer your questions and suggestions:

I had a reply from the cemetery and it's not the correct Ada. The one interred there was born in 1898 and died in 1978. She also had a husband, George. It was worth a try.

The entry for a Maynard Harrison travelling from Mexico to New York is Ada's estranged husband I believe. I can't yet prove it but circumstantial evidence suggests he was in a relationship with another woman in the UK, before he left Ada, and he had two daughters by her. Her name was Annie Cook and the girls were Irene and Florence. They travelled to New York, under the name of Harrison, shortly after Maynard returned there with William in 1907. It seems there was a son born in New York in 1908, variously called Stanley James or Lionel James. I've picked them up returning to the UK from Chile in 1920. The incomplete electoral records for the 1920s show Maynard and Annie resident in Middlesex, then I lost them.

I have no idea what happened to Ada and Maynard's son William after he returned to the US with his father in 1907, although there's a possible entry in New York in 1910. There's nothing to suggest that Ada stayed in touch with Maynard and by 1911 she was calling herself a widow. But the fact that the border crossing papers mention that she and her son Richard were on the way to her sister-in-law in Los Angeles suggest there was still some kind of connection.

I did know that Ada and Maynard lived in Homestead between 1888 and 1897. That's where they were married and where their children were born.

Maynard did have siblings, but not a brother George. The Harrisons in the cemetery don't seem to be connected. Maynard's father died in 1888, shortly after Maynard and Ada's marriage. He left quite a bit of money and in 1891 his widow emigrated to the US with her other children. I've traced some of them over there.

It really is quite a muddle. Ada was born in a quiet little Berkshire village, as was I, and I was amazed to learn of the life she'd led. I would like to find out how and where it ended. This is one brick wall which seems impossible to break down.

PhotoFamily
22-10-15, 15:23
TI had a reply from the cemetery and it's not the correct Ada. The one interred there was born in 1898 and died in 1978. She also had a husband, George. It was worth a try.

Sorry about that. I was really hopeful.

PhotoFamily
23-10-15, 05:35
And frustrating. Do you have Richard's death certificate, or find the index for it?

Name: Richard Maynard Harrison
Social Security #: 565161375
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 7 Mar 1891
Birth Place: Pennsylvania
Death Date: 18 Dec 1957
Death Place: Los Angeles
Mother's Maiden Name: Godwin
Father's Surname: Harrison

Might be interesting to know who the informant was. I'm told that LA area obits are hard to find.

RoseR
23-10-15, 10:34
I'm grateful for your suggestion regarding the entry on the grave website. At least I can discount that one.

Yes, I do indeed have a copy of Richard's death certificate. After coming across the reference I was desperate to do so. I was fortunate to come across a lovely lady in Los Angeles who was happy to get a copy for me. But it actually raised more questions than it answered, which is nothing unusual. There was no informant as it was done under a Pre-Need Arrangement, something which seems to be common in the US. Richard signed the papers himself beforehand.

So I contacted the cemetery where it says he's buried and asked if they had any info. I was told that his daughter A signed for the interment. She was now A M having presumably married sometime after the 1940 Census, which found her single and living with her Dad. The woman at the cemetery kindly did some online searches to see if she could find anything else on daughter Ada, but there was nothing. I've checked too and can find no trace of her.

As usual with this particular family line I just go round in circles. It's given me more problems than all the others put together.

Karamazov
23-10-15, 11:08
I'm grateful for your suggestion regarding the entry on the grave website. At least I can discount that one.

Yes, I do indeed have a copy of Richard's death certificate. After coming across the reference I was desperate to do so. I was fortunate to come across a lovely lady in Los Angeles who was happy to get a copy for me. But it actually raised more questions than it answered, which is nothing unusual. There was no informant as it was done under a Pre-Need Arrangement, something which seems to be common in the US. Richard signed the papers himself beforehand.

So I contacted the cemetery where it says he's buried and asked if they had any info. I was told that his daughter A signed for the interment. She was now A Mhaving presumably married sometime after the 1940 Census, which found her single and living with her Dad. The woman at the cemetery kindly did some online searches to see if she could find anything else on daughter Ada, but there was nothing. I've checked too and can find no trace of her.

As usual with this particular family line I just go round in circles. It's given me more problems than all the others put together.

Do you have an exact DOB for A (Richard's daughter)? Plus any more info on Consuela, his elder daughter?
Christine

RoseR
23-10-15, 16:06
Unfortunately not, nor much information either. I first pick up a reference to the eldest child Consuela on the Draft Registration for WW1 which Richard filled out on 5th June 1917. He said he had a wife and 18 month old child, indicating she was born in late 1915/early 1916.

In 1924 Consuela crossed from Mexico to Texas with her mother Maria. The entry states she was 8 and born in Tampico, Tamaulipas, Mexico.

The 1930 US Census shows Consuela as age 14, so indicating a birth around the time stated above.

The 1930 Census is the first time I find her sister A . She's aged 8, so born about 1921/22.

The border crossing a few months later doesn't give the ages of the girls.

The 1940 Census shows daughter A living with her father Richard in Texas. She's aged 19, so born about 1921. It says she was born in Texas.

That's all I have on either girl, until daughter A turns up signing for her father's interment in 1957 under the name of A M

PhotoFamily
23-10-15, 16:37
Ahem. It occurs to me that we don't know for certain that AH has died, and she's within the 100 yr moratorium on using the names of Living Persons. Moderators, you may wish to clean up some posts?

There's a travel record of an AM traveling from Mexico City to San Antonio, but gives no indication of age, so I think it's of little use:

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gss=angs-g&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=Ada&gsfn_x=1&gsln=Maudsley&gsln_x=0&MSAV=1&msbdy=1921&msbpn__ftp=Texas&msrpn__ftp=Weslaco%2c+Texas&msrpn1__ftp=Robstown%2c+Nueces%2c+Texas%2c+USA&msfng=richard+Maynard&msfns=Harrison&mssns0=Maudsley&_83004003-n_xcl=m&cp=0&catbucket=rst&uidh=dzh&ssrc=pt_t84780279_p48504117071_kpidz0q3d4850411707 1z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid_m1&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=802791&recoff=8+10&db=gpl&indiv=1&ml_rpos=1

RoseR, if you were very lucky, the DC might tell you the undertaker/mortuary that buried the remains? You could try googling it, and seeing if it still exists. That's worked out for me (one time!) - and the funeral home was able to give me the obit.

Karamazov
23-10-15, 18:50
Ahem. It occurs to me that we don't know for certain that AH has died, and she's within the 100 yr moratorium on using the names of Living Persons. Moderators, you may wish to clean up some posts?

There's a travel record of an AM traveling from Mexico City to San Antonio, but gives no indication of age, so I think it's of little use:

Oops, hadn't thought of that re AH/AM!
Coming at it from another angle - do you have a first name name/maiden name for Richard's wife who died pre-1930?

Christine

RoseR
23-10-15, 19:25
My apologies too, my enthusiasm overcame any thought that it was inappropriate.

With regard to Richard's wife: her name was Maria and she was born in Mexico City. That's all I have. I've tried looking at Mexico records but I don't speak Spanish, which is a definite handicap.

RoseR
23-10-15, 19:31
I did contact the cemetery where Richard is buried. They told me that his daughter Ada, now Maudsley, had signed for the interment, but that's all they had. The actual undertaker is no longer in existence.

Elaine
23-10-15, 19:45
Don't think this has been mentioned yet, Richard's WW1 draft card

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gss=angs-g&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=maynard&gsfn_x=0&gsln=harrison&gsln_x=0&msbpn__ftp=Wales&msbpn=5250&msbpn_PInfo=3-|0|0|3257|5250|0|0|0|0|0|0|&msadp=5&cp=12&MSAV=1&uidh=euf&cpxt=1&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=34126901&db=WW1draft&indiv=1&ml_rpos=2

Name: Maynard Harrison
County: Cameron
State: Texas
Birthplace: Berkshire,England
Birth Date: 7 Mar 1889
Race: White

and not American subject

Karamazov
23-10-15, 20:03
Don't think this has been mentioned yet, Richard's WW1 draft card

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gss=angs-g&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=maynard&gsfn_x=0&gsln=harrison&gsln_x=0&msbpn__ftp=Wales&msbpn=5250&msbpn_PInfo=3-|0|0|3257|5250|0|0|0|0|0|0|&msadp=5&cp=12&MSAV=1&uidh=euf&cpxt=1&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=34126901&db=WW1draft&indiv=1&ml_rpos=2

Name: Maynard Harrison
County: Cameron
State: Texas
Birthplace: Berkshire,England
Birth Date: 7 Mar 1889
Race: White

and not American subject

It was mentioned upthread post 14 - an attempt to dodge the American draft by claiming that he was British rather than American born.

PhotoFamily
23-10-15, 20:49
I think I saw today that Ancestry just added Catholic Mexican records - tho that may not cover your peeps.

2nd dtr A. could have been going to Mexico to see her older sister, C. in that airline passenger list?

I've also wondered if the reason we can't find, say, an SSDI record for 2nd dtr, A is because she is still living. Still, many possibilities exist - she divorced, remarried, moved to another country, etc.

Elaine
23-10-15, 20:59
Thanks Karamazov, missed that when I looked back

PhotoFamily
23-10-15, 21:19
OK, I'm trying to keep in mind that Harrison is a common name. But -
isn't this interesting:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VP9K-G87

It's common in central & south America to hyphenate parents' surnames to give to the child, so that's why the child was Torres Harrison, and the mother's maiden name was Harrison. Notice that this person was born in Mexico, but died in California.

But probably just a coincidence.

If dtr C remained in Mexico, perhaps Ada died there? Certainly seems to be a well traveled family!

Oh, cancel - definitely a coincidence: born in 1967

Karamazov
23-10-15, 21:31
Don't think this has been mentioned yet, Richard's WW1 draft card

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gss=angs-g&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=maynard&gsfn_x=0&gsln=harrison&gsln_x=0&msbpn__ftp=Wales&msbpn=5250&msbpn_PInfo=3-|0|0|3257|5250|0|0|0|0|0|0|&msadp=5&cp=12&MSAV=1&uidh=euf&cpxt=1&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=34126901&db=WW1draft&indiv=1&ml_rpos=2

Name: Maynard Harrison
County: Cameron
State: Texas
Birthplace: Berkshire,England
Birth Date: 7 Mar 1889
Race: White

and not American subject

I don't have an ancestry sub so couldn't view via your link but found it here on familysearch - curiouser and curiouser!
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=75&query=%2Bgivenname%3AMaynard~%20%2Bsurname%3AHarri son%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1888-1892~%20%2Brecord_country%3A%22United%20States%22

So we know he was lying about being born in Newberry (sic) Berkshire. But is his claim that he served 3 years as a private in the infantry in England also a lie? Without checking back through this thread, if I recall correctly, no info has been posted about when Richard crossed the Atlantic again after his father upped sticks in 1907 with the younger son, William.
Is this draft card - Jun 1917 - the earliest documented evidence we have found of him being back on the other side of the Atllantic?
It does however look like he was in central/North America some years previously with both daughters being born in Mexico circa 1915/16 and 1921/22 according to the 1930 Mexico census.
So could he feasibly have served 3 years in the British Army before he went to Mexico/US?

It would really help if we could find his marriage record to Maria XXXX or birth records for the daughters. (Sorry to go all Sybil Fawlty there - stating the b****ing obvious!)

My head's too scrambled with all this to do any more searching tonight for UK military/UK outward passengers/1910 US/1911 UK/ or Mexican census records.
Besides which, RoseR may be able to fill in some of these blanks...

PhotoFamily
23-10-15, 21:33
Maria S de Harrison crossing the border into Texas. If you arrow to the previous card, you'll find Consuela

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=MexBorder&h=267196&ti=0&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t84780279_p48504445037_kpidz0q3d4850444503 7z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid

And here's the marriage record!
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?ssrc=pt_t84780279_p48504115172_kpidz0q3d48 504115172z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid_m1&srchb=r&gss=angs-g&rank=1&tid=84780279&pid=48504115172&gpid=&gsfn=richard+Maynard&gsln=Harrison&msbdy=1888&msddy=1957&msbpn__ftp=Homestead%2c+Allegheny%2c+Pennsylvania% 2c+USA&_82004030__ftp=Los+Angeles%2c+Los+Angeles%2c+Calif ornia%2c+USA&cp=15&cpxt=1&msrpn__ftp=Tottenham%2c+Middlesex%2c+England&msrpn1__ftp=Robstown%2c+Texas%2c+USA&msrpn2__ftp=Weslaco%2c+Texas&msrpn3__ftp=Robstown%2c+Nueces%2c+Texas%2c+USA&msfng=Maynard&msfns=Harrison&msmng=Ada&msmns=Godwin&msbng0=William&msbns0=Harrison&mssng0=Maria+%28Harrison%29&mssns0=S&mscng0=Consuela&mscns0=Harrison&mscng1=Ada&mscns1=Harrison&_83004003-n_xcl=f&MSAV=1&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=86240&db=MexCivRegMarTM&indiv=1&ml_rpos=1

Is your Ancestry sub active? If not, only send a PM

PhotoFamily
23-10-15, 21:46
OK, I'm comfortable using Ada's name again:

Name: Ada Mae Holbeck
[Ada Mae Harrison]
Social Security #: 565282900
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 29 Jul 1921
Birth Place: Texas
Death Date: 15 Feb 1981
Death Place: Los Angeles
Mother's Maiden Name: Segura
Father's Surname: Harrison

and she's in a family tree:
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/12875362/person/-56307228

but as a side branch

Karamazov
23-10-15, 21:50
Maria S de Harrison crossing the border into Texas. If you arrow to the previous card, you'll find Consuela

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=MexBorder&h=267196&ti=0&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t84780279_p48504445037_kpidz0q3d4850444503 7z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid

And here's the marriage record!
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?ssrc=pt_t84780279_p48504115172_kpidz0q3d48 504115172z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid_m1&srchb=r&gss=angs-g&rank=1&tid=84780279&pid=48504115172&gpid=&gsfn=richard+Maynard&gsln=Harrison&msbdy=1888&msddy=1957&msbpn__ftp=Homestead%2c+Allegheny%2c+Pennsylvania% 2c+USA&_82004030__ftp=Los+Angeles%2c+Los+Angeles%2c+Calif ornia%2c+USA&cp=15&cpxt=1&msrpn__ftp=Tottenham%2c+Middlesex%2c+England&msrpn1__ftp=Robstown%2c+Texas%2c+USA&msrpn2__ftp=Weslaco%2c+Texas&msrpn3__ftp=Robstown%2c+Nueces%2c+Texas%2c+USA&msfng=Maynard&msfns=Harrison&msmng=Ada&msmns=Godwin&msbng0=William&msbns0=Harrison&mssng0=Maria+%28Harrison%29&mssns0=S&mscng0=Consuela&mscns0=Harrison&mscng1=Ada&mscns1=Harrison&_83004003-n_xcl=f&MSAV=1&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=86240&db=MexCivRegMarTM&indiv=1&ml_rpos=1

Is your Ancestry sub active? If not, only send a PM

Photofamily
You can't leave it at that for those of us without ancestry subs! Itching to know what you've found - can you post a brief summary here?
Thanks,
Christine

Elaine
23-10-15, 21:54
Just found that Ada PhotoFamily

PhotoFamily
23-10-15, 21:55
Well, there seems to be some conflicting info. That tree states that she married Holbeck in 1944 - which would not match up with the info from Richard's death in 1951? But that configuration (birth year, MMN,and her own first and last name, and POB) seem to indicate a strong match?

PhotoFamily
23-10-15, 21:57
Just found that Ada PhotoFamily

Ooops, sorry.

I can try a loose translation of the marriage record, but I believe he states again that he was born in Newbury, Berkshire.

Name: Ricardo Harrison
Gender: Hombre (Male)
Age: 21
Birth Year: abt 1892
Registration or Marriage Date: 6 jun. 1913
Registration or Marriage Place: Tampico, Tamaulipas, México (Mexico)
Spouse: Maria Segura
Spouse Gender: Mujer (Female)
Spouse Age: 22
Father: Ricardo Harrison
Mother: Adie Godwin de Harrison

Elaine
23-10-15, 22:09
Oooops! Just saved a cross post!

PhotoFamily
23-10-15, 22:13
very loose translation of the first part:

In Paso de Dona Cecilia, ?Jurisdiction of Tampico of .. at 5:30 PM on the day 6 or June 19??, before me, Pablo ???, Judge of the Civil Estate, ??? in the house ??? that is the home of Sr Luciano Vernandez, companion of Mr. Ricardo Harrison and Miss Maria Segura, …… marriage that they have <lots of stuff I don’t understand> that he is single, age 25 years, head of <?> of Yunfrania del Aguila, originally of Newbury, England, son of Mr. Richardo Harrison, married , ??? of some years of age, employed, and Ada Godwin of Harrison <i.e., her husband’s surname>, of 42 years, originally of London. and the second … of Mexico City, DF, daughter of Don Juan Segura, widower, of 57 years, and Dona Felicitas Gutierrez de Segura, privada <I guess, meaning deceased?>.

Elaine
23-10-15, 22:13
And a son ?

Tamaulipas, Mexico, Civil Registration Births, 1860-1930

Name: Vicente Harrison
Gender: Hombre (Male)
Birth Date: 5 abr. 1914 (5 Apr 1914)
Birth Registration Place: Tampico de Tamaulipas, Tamaulipas, México (Mexico)
Registration Date: 16 may. 1914
Father: Maria Segura De Harrison
Mother: Maria Segura

Karamazov
23-10-15, 22:19
OK, I'm comfortable using Ada's name again:

Name: Ada Mae Holbeck
[Ada Mae Harrison]
Social Security #: 565282900
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 29 Jul 1921
Birth Place: Texas
Death Date: 15 Feb 1981
Death Place: Los Angeles
Mother's Maiden Name: Segura
Father's Surname: Harrison

and she's in a family tree:
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/12875362/person/-56307228

but as a side branch

I'd found that death and the associated marriage earlier today and had a strong hunch about it, which is why I was asking RoseR earlier if she had Ada and Consuela's mother's maiden name and an exact DOB for Ada.

I'd found that she married John J Holbeck 9 Aug 1944 in LA. Image here:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-29941-1091-35?cc=1804002&wc=96PL-6TL:147454701

My hesitation about just sending it out into the ether earlier today was
1. I didn't want to start a possible wild goose chase and
2. I could not account for her being Maudsley in 1951. I couldn't find an Ada Harrison/Holbeck marriage to a Maudsley, plus her death was registered in the name Holbeck, implying there was not a divorce.
So another puzzle...but glad that my hunch turned out to be correct.

I really will have to get another ancestry sub at some point...it's just too frustrating not being able to view the finds!
Does the ancestry tree you mentioned indicate that she had any children? If so, they might be able to solve the mystery of what happened to Ada senior...

Christine

PS Richard seems to alter his DOB from time to time - 7 March 1889 according to the 1917 WW1 draft (I assume this is the correct one as it correlates more closely with his age 13 in 1901 census when he is with his father and younger brother in London, 7 Mar 1891 according to death record, and circa 1892 according to the 1913 marriage record - I wonder why?

PhotoFamily
23-10-15, 22:20
Yes, and the subsequent death in May.

The birth record names the grandparents - "William Harrison and Ida Harrison"

Oh, my - I need to go looking for a couple of Mexico births for my own tree :)

PhotoFamily
23-10-15, 22:22
Does the ancestry tree you mentioned indicate that she had any children? If so, they might be able to solve the mystery of what happened to Ada senior...

Christine

No. Ada is married to one of the main tree's side branches, and no parents are listed for her, and she and John Joseph Holbeck are not listed with children.

But it's gotta be her? Not only is her father's name correct, but so is his POB

Elaine
23-10-15, 22:25
Death is a bit easier to translate

http://search.ancestry.co.uk//cgi-bin/sse.dll?gss=angs-g&new=1&rank=1&msfng=ricardo&msfns=harrison&msmng=maria+&msmns=segura&cp=0&catbucket=rstp&MSAV=1&uidh=euf&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=651933&db=MexCivRegDeaTM&indiv=1&ml_rpos=2

Tamaulipas, Mexico, Civil Registration Deaths, 1860-1987

Name: Vicente Harrison
Gender: Hombre (Male)
Age: 1/12
Birth Year: abt 1914
Death Registration Date: 17 may. 1914
Death Registration Place: Tampico, Tamaulipas, México (Mexico)
Father: Maynard Harrison
Mother: Maria Segura

You can browse through the death indexes here for anyone without anc*

https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A%2F%2Ffamilysearch.org%2Frecapi% 2Fsord%2Fwaypoint%2FMD5F-8M3%3A203414801%3Fcc%3D1916237

Karamazov
23-10-15, 22:33
But it's gotta be her? Not only is her father's name correct, but so is his POB

Yep, gotta be!

JudithM
24-10-15, 07:13
Ahem. It occurs to me that we don't know for certain that AH has died, and she's within the 100 yr moratorium on using the names of Living Persons. Moderators, you may wish to clean up some posts?

There's a travel record of an AM traveling from Mexico City to San Antonio, but gives no indication of age, so I think it's of little use:

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gss=angs-g&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=Ada&gsfn_x=1&gsln=Maudsley&gsln_x=0&MSAV=1&msbdy=1921&msbpn__ftp=Texas&msrpn__ftp=Weslaco%2c+Texas&msrpn1__ftp=Robstown%2c+Nueces%2c+Texas%2c+USA&msfng=richard+Maynard&msfns=Harrison&mssns0=Maudsley&_83004003-n_xcl=m&cp=0&catbucket=rst&uidh=dzh&ssrc=pt_t84780279_p48504117071_kpidz0q3d4850411707 1z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid_m1&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=802791&recoff=8+10&db=gpl&indiv=1&ml_rpos=1

RoseR, if you were very lucky, the DC might tell you the undertaker/mortuary that buried the remains? You could try googling it, and seeing if it still exists. That's worked out for me (one time!) - and the funeral home was able to give me the obit.

I edited earlier posts to remove name of possibly living younger daughter. Sorry if this then confuses the issue following subsequent finding of possible death for this daughter.

RoseR
24-10-15, 15:14
Wow, I don't know where to start or what to say, you've all done so much since I shut down last night. Thank you so much. I think you can see what a problem this has been.

The discovery of the marriage is amazing. I have no access to Ancestry, except the UK version through my cousin. The birth and death of a son is also news to me. What looks like the marriage and death of daughter Ada is also something I never expected, although I wondered if perhaps she was still alive.

To go through the questions and remarks: When Ada senior crossed the border to Texas with Richard in 1930 both girls were with him. I have nothing on C after then.

Richard certainly wasn't born in Newberry (sic). As to his claim to have served as a private in the infantry in England for 3 years, that's less easy to prove either way. I've checked the military records but some of them lack information to enable to prove if he did or not.

I have no idea when he crossed the Atlantic again. The outbound passenger lists at that time have very little information and I don't know where he would have been heading.

The draft card from 1917 is the first documented evidence I have that he's on the other side of the Atlantic. By then he's in Texas, but he had to have been in Mexico at least since 1913, from the marriage document. I see on that he'd been tampering with his DOB again. He seems to have done that on several occasions. I'm not at all sure why. He also says his father's name is Ricardo (Richard) when it fact it was Maynard.

As to the son Vicente, I know nothing of him.

The Ada Mae Holbeck is a turn up for the books. It certainly looks like the correct person. Her father is shown as RMH and he was born in Pennsylvania. The age is also about right. This then throws into question the name of Maudsley. I'd of course looked for a Harrison/Maudsley marriage and found nothing. As her death was registered under the name Holbeck it doesn't look as though she divorced or remarried. All I can think is that I was given incorrect information by the cemetery when I enquired who'd signed the papers for Richard's interment.

You've certainly given me a lot to work on and I would never have found this by myself. Thank you.

Elaine
24-10-15, 20:41
This is interesting

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=38512599

2 marriages for John...mentions Magdalen Zak-

PhotoFamily
24-10-15, 23:18
If you look at the findagrave memorial page for John - but also his sibs (I looked at Nancy & Dorothea's) a findagrave user either created the page, or has left a virtual flower. And it's not like they're all in one cemetery or county - he's creating memorial pages for gravestones halfway across the US. I think it might be worth contacting him to see what he knows of JJ and Ada.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=mr&GRid=17927552&MRid=46865877&

His bio sounds like he might be willing to help :)

RoseR
25-10-15, 17:46
It's interesting that John Holbeck married again after Ada's death. There's only 6 years between her death and his. I will contact the man who put the details on findagrave to see if he has anything else. It would have been nice if Ada and John had children, but I guess that was too much to hope.

I'm still getting my head round the marriage, as I was sure her married name was Maudsley. But the details certainly fit, although I have nothing else which shows her middle name of Mae.

I'm also very grateful for the marriage record for Richard and Maria and the birth/death details for their son. I would have had no way of finding this and would certainly not have been able to translate it if I did.

None of this leads me to the place and date of death of Ada senior, but it's given me so much information which I didn't have before. I'm so pleased I decided to ask for help with this one. I'd been beating my head on that brick wall for so long.