Which Spouse

[Vanessa Cartwright]

There are several William Armitages, born about 1762 in Yorkshire. I need to find spouses for each one. How do I know if I am marrying the right William to the right Spouse, when there are no age and no place of birth displayed?? Please can anyone help?

[Anne in Carlisle]

What I would do is make a spreadsheet about all the events you can find for each of them; their baptisms, deaths of ANY with that name, all the marriages and all their childrens' baptisms. If you enter all the places and occupations into the data as well you might see a pattern developing which could help you eliminate some of them and pin down the most likely ones.
Anne

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I agree with Anne - chart William Armitage marriages and look for possible children of each.
I don't know which Riding you are dealing with; many North & East Riding parishes introduced the Dade system of register keeping from the mid 1770's until (if you are lucky) the early 1800s.

https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Dade_parish_registers

If you find events in some of these, then you get details of grandparents as well as parents. Such finds help enormously in establishing links.
This thread gives an example of what I mean -

http://www.familytreeforum.com/showthread.php/111386-What-a-difference-a-Dade-makes-(for-those-with-Yorkshire-ancestry)?highlight=dade

Jay

[Olde Crone Holden]

I had a similar problem and only finally solved it by finding monumental inscriptions and a couple of wills. I think I finished up with one poor child I couldn't assign to anyone in particular, fortunately not my direct ancestor.

OC

[Vanessa Cartwright]

Thanks Janet, I will do that. Its always good to strike on a tangent and do something different. Thanks also for the links. These could be useful.
Vanesssa

[Vanessa Cartwright]

Many thanks - this sounds like construcrive advice and I will give it a try. Many thanks

[Vanessa Cartwright]

Hi Janet in Yorkshire, Thanks for the link to Dade parish registers. Got through and read it all, but when I came to the actual registers in the West Riding of Yorkshire there was no help with Dade parish registers. So I guess I have been unlucky,in that it didn't get that far West? bit disappointing as I had hoped that I might have a breakthrough!! Never mind I will get on with the spreadsheets, and see if I can find anything there. Many thanks.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

What information do you have about your William and in which area of the West Riding?

Jay

[Vanessa Cartwright]

Jay, The information I have is that William Armitage was born about 1762 aound the Wakefield Leeds Huddersfield area. He migrated to Cheshire in the late part of the 17th century. He married Ann Bird in Bidston Cheshire in 1794 where they had 4 children. Ann died in1804 and Wiliam married again in 1805. He died in Moreton/Bidston in 1832. His Will gives no clues to his life from the time he was born in 1762 to his appearance in Cheshire when he married in 1794. There are no parents or siblings in Cheshire to indicate that he was born in Cheshire. Previous generations have given the information that William originated from Leeds, Yorkshire. That's it in a nutshell. Are you able to throw any light on this??
ive been looking for William for about 3 years, with not much success!!! Thanks for your interest. Vanessa

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Jay, The information I have is that William Armitage was born about 1762 aound the Wakefield Leeds Huddersfield area. He migrated to Cheshire in the late part of the 17th century. He married Ann Bird in Bidston Cheshire in 1794 where they had 4 children. Ann died in1804 and Wiliam married again in 1805. He died in Moreton/Bidston in 1832. His Will gives no clues to his life from the time he was born in 1762 to his appearance in Cheshire when he married in 1794. There are no parents or siblings in Cheshire to indicate that he was born in Cheshire. Previous generations have given the information that William originated from Leeds, Yorkshire. That's it in a nutshell. Are you able to throw any light on this??
ive been looking for William for about 3 years, with not much success!!! Thanks for your interest. Vanessa

Do you mean generations of the family, previous to you, or previous to William?

Going by your info above, William would have been 32 when he married Ann - have you seen the marriage PR entry? Was he of Bidston and was he single? What was his occupation?
Is the marriage the first reference you have for him in Cheshire?
With regards to his will, I think you would have been very lucky for it to have given details of his earlier life, unless he was referring to property he owned or had an interest in in other places, or was making bequests to members of his extended family.

Jay

[Anne in Carlisle]

Although Armitage is a common name in West Yorkshire I do think you should be prepared to spread the net wider in view of the tenuous information that William came from the Leeds area. Unless you some actual written evidence, then the story might be a version of Chinese whispers .... "Granny said <xxxx> might be possible" which has become presumed facts. In concentrating on West Yorkshire you might inadvertently miss a William Armitage from a nearer location.

On the other hand family stories shouldn't be ignored! Some can prove true in a different way. My Granny said her ARRAND family came from Ireland .... in fact they came from the Isle of Axholme in Lincolnshire! (a different branch of her family came from Ireland too!)
Anne

[Vanessa Cartwright]

Its great to be able to discuss this. Thank you. I have struggled with it for a long time.

So - There are a large number of headstones in Hoylake, Cheshire where many Armitages are buried. Notes against one headstone relates that "These Armitages were supposed descendants from 2 brothers who migrated from Yorkshire en rout to Australia - one married a Jones and inherited a fleet of fishing nobbies" William's son married a "Jones". Whether he inherited a fleet of fishing nobbies I don't know. We have never been able to verify the Australia bit, either.

This "story" whether true or not is well known amongst Armitage genealogist. My mother said that the family came from Leeds Yorkshire. But never said exactly who. My grandfather David, G-grandfather David, and GG-grandfather Joseph, were all born in Cheshire. Its my GGG-grandfather William who is the illusive one, and is believed to have come from Leeds, Yorkshire. There are no siblings or parents for William in Cheshire.

The Banns of Marriage state that he was of the Parish of Bidston. His occupation was a "Servant". Ann Bird was of the Parish of Wallasey. Both Parishes are close to one another. This is the first reference I have of him in Cheshire. I haven't been able to locate a PR for the marriage. As far as I am aware, no one else, who is onto this project have found a Parish Register for the actual marriage to Ann Bird. His well written signature is on the Banns. He appears on the Land Tax Assessment forms from 1816 to his dealth in 1832. Cheshire Archives do not have comprehensive settlement records for Cheshire, and a search for what they had did not return any results for William.

Having collated, as far as possible, all the William Armitages from the West Riding of Yorkshire, I'm not sure of how many more there are in the North and East Ridings. But I will keep looking, in the hopes of sorting this problem out. Its a difficult one. And any help or ideas will be very much appreciated. Thank you. Van

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thanks for giving us a bit more background information, which may just help someone find something.
A couple of thoughts:
I'm not sure when separate banns books were introduced. I've just looked at some for E Yorks marriages in 1792 and the images for both banns and marriage records for that year look the same. At the top of the entry it has Banns of marriage - for some couples this is filled in with the dates, and it says lower down "married in this church after banns." For other couples the Banns of marriage line is left blank, the names of the couples are added lower down the entry with the addition "Married in this church by licence."
And if there are signatures of both parties, (and witnesses) it would seem to me that what you have viewed is the marriage register and NOT a banns book????
Are there names of witnesses?

"Servant" is a very wide-ranging job description - what did William do in later records?

Jay

[Janet in Yorkshire]

With regards to the headstones and "notes against one...." are you referring to a transcription of monumental inscriptions in the churchyard? If so, is this from a published booklet compiled by a local family society, members of the church community, A N other interested party? Hopefully a booklet would contain details of who had done the transcriptions and, perhaps, added the notes.
Sometimes these churchyard surveys are typed up and deposited with the county record office - have you seen the source material, or has the information been passed onto you by a relative, other researcher?

Jay

[Vanessa Cartwright]

OK, just looked at the Marriage banns which states "Married in this Church by Banns Lawfully published". Its hardly legible but the witnesses are Margaret Hilton (I think it says 'friend') and Mary Williamson. If it is "Hilton" it ties up with Robert Hilton, Farmer who is mentioned in William's Will as executor.
I don't know what William did after his marriage, but when he married his second wife Elizabeth Banks in 1805 he inherited a house and land and in his Will it states:- "my dwelling house in which I now live the garden and croft adjoining thereunto being land of inheritance etc etc unto Robert Hilton of Moreton aforesaid farmer, in trust etc etc." I have been to see this property and it is a lovely dwelling.
I'll answer the next bit on another post.
Van

[Vanessa Cartwright]

The monumental inscriptions was a search done at Cheshire Archives by a professional researcher who did a search on my behalf. Whether they would be held in a booklet I don't know. But it is something I could email the Archives about and ask where it came from. The researcher did the search in 2012. The full notes agains the headstone reads: "Odd but snow squalls were common in May as late as 1914" "These Armitages were supposed descended etc etc" Its very odd. There are, I think, five children in the Grave and they would be William's grandchildren. Most of the deaths were in 1874 and also the mother who died in 1885.

All very mysterious
Van

[Vanessa Cartwright]

Sorry - the children in the grave would be William's great grandchildren.
Van

[Anne in Carlisle]

" just looked at the Marriage banns which states "Married in this Church by Banns Lawfully published". Its hardly legible but the witnesses are Margaret Hilton (I think it says 'friend') and Mary Williamson. If it is "Hilton" it ties up with Robert Hilton, Farmer who is mentioned in William's Will as executor." Quote

If there are witnesses and signatures then, as Janet says, this is the actual marriage record. I have never seen any 'banns only' records with anything except the names of bride and groom, the three dates of the callings, and the vicar's signature.
Anne

[Janet in Yorkshire]

If it were my family, I'd definitely contact the record office to try and chase up the origins of those asides in the report on the monumental inscription transcriptions. Often there is an attempt to marry each gravestone with the relevant entry in the burial register and I have come across examples of explanatory notes added by a transcriber.

Sounds as if the "Banns" is actually the parish marriage register, but I don't think the mystery word will be "friend." The only explanatory or relationship word I've ever seen after the signature of a witness has been "churchwarden."

Have you seen all four baptism entries of the children from the first marriage in the parish register? Sometimes that records job or status of the father.
Sorry, not being much help - just trying to throw our some ideas!

Jay

[Vanessa Cartwright]

Thank you Anne and Jay for your help and advice. I will certainly take up your suggestions and see where it takes me. Some have said I am on a hiding to nowhere which makes me more determined to carry on!!!
i have Ancestry's records for the birth of William and Ann's children and only the parents names and dates are shown. I have all the birth certificates for the children of William and his second wife Elizabeth. On some it gives William's occupation as labourer. Any more ideas will always be welcome. In the meantime I shall keep searching for William!!!! Thank you
van