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Mengella family, Preston

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  • Mengella family, Preston

    Apologies in advance for the length of this post but here goes...
    I am helping a friend who is relatively new to family history and we are focusing on this family. Neither of us has an ancestry sub currently so I can't post census links after 1881 - sorry - so a brief summary of anything anyone finds on ancestry would be helpful in the first instance. We can then follow up any ancestry links posted to this thread via Ancestry institution at the library next Tuesday. (I have a current FMP world sub due to expire around later this month)
    I've tracked Vito and Mary Mengella (loads of name variants over the years - name seems to have settled as Mengella in the early 1900s) through all censuses 1881-1911 in Preston as below:


    1881 at 15 Turks Head Yard, Preston
    http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/s...try&h=11885382

    Transcribed as Vito Aningella, Mary Mengalla and on the next page Feolmeana Migella who is more than likely their daughter. I wonder if she might have been 8 months rather than 8 years as otherwise there is a big gap between her and the next child, plus see following censuses - either way, can't find a birth reg.

    1891 at 7 Kirkham Street North, Preston
    Veto and Mary Muncelli, plus children Minnie 11 (could this be Filomena/Philomena from above if 8 months theory is correct?), Sarah (Seraphina) 9, Daniel 7, Mary Teresa 3

    1901 at 154 North Road, Preston
    Vito and Mary Mungella, plus children Philomena 21, Seraphina 19, Daniel 17, Mary Teresa 14, John 9, Martha 7, (Mary) Madelina 5, Lewis (Louis) 2

    1911 at 4 Brownlow Street, Preston
    Mary Mengella (widow) - 14 children born alive, 7 living, 5 dead - maths not a strong point!) plus Mary Teresa 23, John 18, Martha, Madiline 14, Louis 11, Francis 5, plus granddaughter Mary Phyllis 10 months - I think she Mary Teresa's (illegitimate) daughter.

    I have found assorted birth, marriage registrations etc for the children born in Preston but don't want to make this post any longer than it already is by detailing them here. Variant surnames for the birth registrations include Minghella, Minghello, Mengella, Mengila, Mungella.

    Can anyone find:
    Philomena's birth
    Naturalisation for Vito
    Marriage for Vito and Mary, possibly in Italy, Mary's maiden name, any info re where they were from in Italy - family lore says Naples, see also 1881 census record for where born, when they arrived in England
    Missing children - I make it 9 via censuses but there were apparently 14 altogether according to 1911 census.

    Any other info welcome, even if we already have it..my friend is interested in working forward as well as back.
    Thanks,
    Christine
    Last edited by Karamazov; 07-10-15, 14:01.
    Researching:
    HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

  • #2
    Their origins in Naples would make it almost certain that they were Catholic- in which case I would recommend looking at the baptism & marriage registers for R C churches in Preston. Few of those will be on-line, but the Lancashire Records Office has copies of most of them.
    Last edited by AntonyM; 07-10-15, 14:32.
    Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
    Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Antony. Yes they were most definitely Catholic - my friend has the marriage certificate for her grandmother (Mary Madeline) and I have found schools admission records for two of the other daughters to Catholic schools in Preston via FMP. I didn't find anything on the Lancashire online parish clerks website, so Lancashire Records Office may be due a visit in the future.
      Christine
      Researching:
      HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

      Comment


      • #4
        little bit in a newspaper about Louis presume he's yoursYorkshire Evening Post 19 Dec 1933.JPG

        Comment


        • #5
          and anotherLancashire evening post 9 Sep 1932.jpg

          Comment


          • #6
            may be JohnLancashire evening post 4 Oct 1919.JPG

            Comment


            • #7
              maybe another Mengella in your lotLancashire evening post 6 Feb 1947.JPG

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Val,
                Thanks for these newspaper cuttings.
                I'd already found the one for John - definitely the John from this family - see http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/ca...NGELLA,%20JOHN which confirms Vito and Mary as his parents.
                Very sad dying just over a month before the Armistice. I had also found his marriage to Lilian (Lawson) in q3 1913. It also looks like they had two children, births registered in 1916 and 1918, and that Lilian remarried q3 1920 to Sydney Wignall.
                I haven't followed this line forward yet though...
                I wonder if the Phyllis who married Hereford might be the granddaughter, Mary Phyllis, from the 1911 census. Haven't had time to try and track her yet...
                As for Louis - looks like bad boy footballers are nothing new!

                Christine
                Researching:
                HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Val wish Id never started View Post
                  may be John[ATTACH=CONFIG]17810[/ATTACH]
                  It looks like some of the other brothers also saw service in WW1 - 9 hits on this ancestry search. It's going to be hard to wait until next Tuesday at the library to view/confirm...��


                  Particularly this one for John, as I've never seen this type of record before:

                  UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929
                  Last edited by Karamazov; 07-10-15, 19:20.
                  Researching:
                  HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think the Mary Phyllis Mengella who married a Hereford (I can't give his name as I can't find a death for him) MAY have been a daughter of Louis (marriage says Louis F Mengella). She was born 29-10-1923 and died as Mary Phyllis Hereford in Nov 1984 in Preston and South Ribble - Lancashire - Vol 40 - Page 2047.

                    They appear to have had 2 boys and 2 girls. I can't name them of course as they could easily still be alive.
                    Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 07-10-15, 21:03.
                    Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Karamazov

                      Have you used http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/ to locate the births, marriages and deaths for the Preston Mengella family.
                      I have located 11 births from 1882 thru to 1901 for the children of Veto and Mary with various different spellings for Mary's maiden name. Also a death for a boy Peter Paul Anthony F Menglla aged 8 in 1905 who's birth registration doesn't show up in 1897/8. Making 12 births in Preston.. I searched using soundex. No birth for Philomena is showing so perhaps she was born elsewhere..

                      Wanda

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Chrissie Smiff View Post
                        I think the Mary Phyllis Mengella who married a Hereford (I can't give his name as I can't find a death for him) MAY have been a daughter of Louis (marriage says Louis F Mengella). She was born 29-10-1923 and died as Mary Phyllis Hereford in Nov 1984 in Preston and South Ribble - Lancashire - Vol 40 - Page 2047.

                        They appear to have had 2 boys and 2 girls. I can't name them of course as they could easily still be alive.
                        I can't find any marriages or death for any of the 4 children. Nor can I find them with a free search on .192 electoral register.
                        Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Mary Phyllis Mengella b 1910 has MMN as Mengella, so probably illegitimate as suggested upthread.

                          Philomena and Seraphina married on the same day, or very closely...they are on consecutive pages of the register in 1904 (Lancsbmd).

                          OC
                          Last edited by Olde Crone Holden; 07-10-15, 22:22.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wanda houghton View Post
                            Hi Karamazov

                            Have you used http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/ to locate the births, marriages and deaths for the Preston Mengella family.
                            I have located 11 births from 1882 thru to 1901 for the children of Veto and Mary with various different spellings for Mary's maiden name. Also a death for a boy Peter Paul Anthony F Menglla aged 8 in 1905 who's birth registration doesn't show up in 1897/8. Making 12 births in Preston.. I searched using soundex. No birth for Philomena is showing so perhaps she was born elsewhere..

                            Wanda
                            Thanks Wanda.
                            I'd been using FreeBMD but the LancsBMD is loads better with the option to export results into a spreadsheet. Even though I live in Lancs I've never had any call previously to research here, all my roots being in Ireland, but the LancsBMD site will be really useful for my friend, so thanks for alerting me to it. The soundex tip was also really useful for this family so many thanks for that, too.
                            Like you I found 11 born in Preston via this route. Only 7 variants of Mengella and 10 variants of Mary's maiden name amongst these 11 registrations!!! So not much help in trying to find a marriage for Vito and Mary which was a bit of a long shot anyway.

                            Thankfully, the name seems to have settled as Mengella once the children start marrying in the early 1900s.
                            I had found the death for Peter Paul Anthony F (you got the dates a bit mixed up in your post - actual death is in 1913 aged 8 so I wondered if he might be Francis who was aged 5 in the 1911 census - couldn't find a Preston birth registration for him though... Assuming for the moment he is another child of Vito and Mary, that accounts for twelve children.

                            As for Philomena/Minnie, according to the 1881 and 1891 censuses she was born in London. Heaven only knows how her name might have been registered! I'd still like to find it though if anyone is up for that particular challenge...

                            As for child 14 - London might be a possibility, or like Francis born circa 1905 another unregistered Preston birth.

                            Christine
                            Last edited by Karamazov; 08-10-15, 10:25.
                            Researching:
                            HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                              Mary Phyllis Mengella b 1910 has MMN as Mengella, so probably illegitimate as suggested upthread.

                              OC
                              Alongside Mary Teresa's name on the 1911 census is 0 years married, 1 child born, 1 child living.
                              I have a pretty strong hunch re who the father was which I will run past my friend next week to see what she makes of it...
                              Researching:
                              HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Karamazov

                                How very honest of her. Unmarried women were not required to give that information!

                                A thought about Philomena's birth. If it occurred shortly after the couple arrived in England, they might not have known they had to register her birth. As they were Catholic however, I bet my bottom dollar she was baptised.

                                OC

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I wonder if they are related to the famous Minghella family on the Isle of Wight - Anthony Minghella & Minghella Ice Cream.

                                  They were originally from Italy.
                                  Wendy



                                  PLEASE SCAN AT 300-600 DPI FOR RESTORATION PURPOSES. THANK YOU!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by WendyPusey View Post
                                    I wonder if they are related to the famous Minghella family on the Isle of Wight - Anthony Minghella & Minghella Ice Cream.

                                    They were originally from Italy.
                                    That crossed my mind too. In 1881 Vito is a musician and later an ice cream vendor!
                                    The Minghella IOW business was not established until the 1950s though, so much later immigrants I would think. http://www.minghella.co.uk/meettheminghellas.php
                                    Anthony Minghella (director/screenwriter of The English Patient) was also a member of the IOW family. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anth...nghella#Writer

                                    Christine
                                    Last edited by Karamazov; 08-10-15, 12:43.
                                    Researching:
                                    HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                      Karamazov

                                      How very honest of her. Unmarried women were not required to give that information!


                                      OC
                                      As I understand it, neither were widows, so it's always a nice bonus when they supply the info anyway. I've had it happen with a few widows and widowers in my tree, leading to the discovery of otherwise unknown children. Never before seen anyone acknowledging that they were unmarried with a child, though...

                                      Christine
                                      Researching:
                                      HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Karamazov View Post

                                        As for Philomena/Minnie, according to the 1881 and 1891 censuses she was born in London. Heaven only knows how her name might have been registered! I'd still like to find it though if anyone is up for that particular challenge...
                                        How about this for possible birth of Philomena in London in q3 1880
                                        Philemena MINCHALI Holborn 1b 714. (Yet another surname variant)
                                        This was via FreeBMD.
                                        Are there any other birth/baptism records on ancestry or elsewhere which might help confirm or rule this one out? Nothing else via my FMP sub...

                                        Christine
                                        Researching:
                                        HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                                        Comment

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