Who is Lily Bailey?

[lennon2011]

Hi everyone, I've finally bought the birth certificate of my Great Grandmother Marjorie Bailey and it states that her Mum was a Lily Bailey who was a Hotel Waitress. I've got the 1911 Census that's narrowed down where she worked and I've got pictures of the Hotel, I even have a 1901, 1891 Census for her as well as an 1891 Birth in Middlesbrough and a 1915 Marriage in Middlesbrough followed by a 1967 Death in Middlesbrough or Cleveland but despite that I still don't know any parents for her as she's living with her Grandparents.

I don't suppose anyone would possibly like to help solve this little mystery would they? I'm wondering if there's a possibility of an Illegitimacy involved but isn't it usually the Mother's that have the child and not the Father's? Following the 1891 Census to 1911 it seems to be the son Thomas that could be the father as on the 1913 birth cert & 1911 census is the same address which funnily enough isn't in Thornaby and never has been.

1911 Cen- http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/s...54&usePUB=true

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Is a father named on the birth cert?

Jay

[lennon2011]

There's no father named for Marjorie Bailey at all. We knew of that through Nanna and one of her Daughters are still alive and I'd been pestering my Aunt who's in contact with her to get the name for more than a year with no luck. I finally decided to get the birth certificate when the registry office confirmed that the Mother's name wasn't what I thought it was.

[webwiz]

Since Lily was single in 1911 with the surname Bailey and her daughter had the same surname I assume that Marjorie was illegitimate. If there was no clue in the name (eg sometimes the father's surname is given as a middle name) and no father on the birth cert. your chances of finding who the father was are slim.

[lennon2011]

Yeah it's Lily herself that I'm now trying to find. I guess I should have been a little more clearer in that bit at the top. I have her birth in 1891, Census from 1891 to 1911 but they say she's the Granddaughter and I can't work out who her parents may be. The birth cert of her daughter and the 1911 census of Lily's Grandmother have the same Address but the son who's living with Lily's Grandmother isn't married and he's the only one I can think of being Lily's possible Father but isn't it usually the Mother who has custody of Illegitimate children and not the Father?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Do you mean she is living with her Bailey grandparents? In which case it is exxtremely unlikely that her mother's brother is her father!

OC

[Guest]

have you got a link to one of the census records?

[webwiz]

I would bet that Lily is the illegitimate daughter of Martha and an unknown father, but proving it will be difficult

[Olde Crone Holden]

Oh right, I'm with it now, lol. It's Lily's parents we are looking for and we don't know if she is illegitimate or not.

You could get her marriage cert and see what she says about her father, although it was customary to invent a father for the marriage cert.

OC

[JudithM]

have you got a link to one of the census records?

Sarah put a link to the 1891 census on her opening post, though she labelled it 1911. I'd agree with Webwiz that Martha, aged 20 on that census, is a very likely candidate to be Lily's mother.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Sarah put a link to the 1891 census on her opening post, though she labelled it 1911. I'd agree with Webwiz that Martha, aged 20 on that census, is a very likely candidate to be Lily's mother.

That census link won't open for me - it's .com

Agree about Martha, although she seems to be "Fanny" in 1881. I was looking back to see if there were any more daughters, but Thomas & Harriet seemed to be alone in 1871, IF I'd got the right couple.

Jay

[vera2013]

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6598/NRYRG12_4018_4021-0427/862931?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1891%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3dlily%26gsln%3dbailey%26msbdy%3d1891%26msbpn__ftp%3dMiddlesborough%252c%2bYorkshire%252c%2bEngland%26msbpn%3d89053%26msbpn_PInfo%3d8-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c5292%257c89053%257c0%257c%26msypn__ftp%3dMiddlesborough%252c%2bYorkshire%252c%2bEngland%26msypn%3d89053%26msypn_PInfo%3d8-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c5292%257c89053%257c0%257c%26_83004003-n_xcl%3dm%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26MSAV%3d1%26uidh%3d326%26pcat%3dCEN_1890%26fh%3d16%26h%3d862931%26recoff%3d%26ml_rpos%3d17&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

1891 Census

Lilly born 1890 6 months with

Grandparents

Thomas, 52, Harriet 50 in Thornaby, Yorkshire

Other children

Martha J 20, Fred 17, Tom 15, Patty (Lilly Polly) 13

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=26498825

In the 1881 there is also William, born 1865 Shropshire who could also be the father but can't find him subsequently although there is a William H but he is a Craneman. William was a Fitter

I did see a Thomas and Harriet in 1871 but think he is a Miner. There is a Thomas visiting Stockton in 1871, married but can't see Harriet and William back in Shropshire.

Vera

[Sylvia C]

???

In 1901, Lily is shown as Lilian?? If I have the correct family??

Name Age
Thomas Bailey 62
Harriot Bailey 59
Thomas Bailey 25
Lilian Bailey 10 b.ca 1891, Thornaby



Which is she???

Lily, Lilly or Lilian??

I do agree that Martha is most likely to be her mother ................. but need to be sure about her name in order to determine a birth registration for her

[Sylvia C]

This is a possible registration for her .... Middlesborough is the registration district that includes Thornaby where she says she was born on the 1901 and 1911 censuses, and where they lived

Births Dec 1890 (>99%)
Bailey Lily Middlesbro' 9d 598

[lennon2011]

I am sorry for confusing everyone but saying that at least you now know where I myself have gotten confused when it comes to who could be Lily's Father. Out of all Harriet & Thomas Sr's children it is Thomas Jr who is still living with Harriet and at the address that is on the birth certificate of Lily's daughter, but at the same time if she's always lived with her Grandparents maybe it's just a coincidence in thinking Thomas Jr is the Father. The street isn't even in Thornaby, it's in Norton and always has been which is just another reason to get confused. I'd say it's 2 Estates away from Thornaby and there's plenty of Churches between them.

Map.jpg

[webwiz]

It is possible that the grandparents had a son who was the father of Lily and maybe he and his wife are living elsewhere or have died, and it would be worth your while looking for a marriage and deaths, also for a baptism which would give the parents' names. However having had many similar cases in my own tree I would guess that Lily was very probably the illegitimate daughter of Martha. At least (if I am right) the grandparents did not claim Lily as their own daughter, a fairly common practice.

[lennon2011]

So I've just realized that Lily was still alive when my Dad was born. Plus I don't think it's Martha that is the parent of Lily. Martha has a Lily of her own born in 1894 a Lily Pybus. Surely she'd not name a legit daughter to her Husband after an Illegitimate one? Although her first child to her husband was born on 5 FEBRUARY 1892 • 14 Albert Road, Stockton on Tees.

[JBee]

If in service a baby might well be left with grandparents or might just be babysitting that night.

[larkspur]

My gt grandmother Margaret was illegitimate, she is on the census with her grandparents, as their granddaughter. When she married she put her grandfather as father. Incidentley her biological mother married and had another Margaret three years after mine.... so yes it did happen. Also I sent for the birth certificate of my Gt Gt grandfather, also living with grandparents, thinking he would be the illegitimate son of one of their daughters. Quite a surprise when he turned out to be the legitimate son of one of their sons. Just lived with his grands.
I think you need to send for Lilys birth certificate reference was given in a previous post.
Lily Bailey Oct 1890. Middlesborough, 9d/598

[lennon2011]

Looking further on what we do know I see that Lily named her son William, wasn't Thomas & Harriet's first son named that? Sadly he died aged 22 in 1943.