Surname with added letter!

[Andrea E P]

I've been trying to trace my family, especially my paternal grandfather's family, but have come across a problem with his father. On my great grandfather's wedding certificate, 8/4/1901 his surname is listed as Pleant, the name we use. But I can't find him on the 1901 census held the Sunday before his wedding. It seems that he (Ernest George) or his father, Charles, changed the original spelling which seems to be Plant. Charles was a soldier but that's all I know and in a 1881 census isn't listed with rest of family, wife Anne M., son Ernest George, and daughters Florence and Mary(?). They are listed as Plant's here, but by the time of the 1901 wedding it's Pleant. The eldest and youngest child were born in the Bromley area, but the middle child was born in Yorkshire, perhaps due to Charles' military connections. Don't know where to look next.

[Chrissie Smiff]

Can you tell us any years of birth etc please?

[Chrissie Smiff]

Found them in 1881. The last child appears to be Rose A - http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/75...l=ReturnRecord

[Olde Crone Holden]

It looks like a spelling mistake to me. There are only four or five Pleant BMDs from 1837-1900.


Perhaps they felt that as it was spelled that way on an official document that thy had to use that spelling in future. I certainly doubt that it was a deliberate name change.

OC

[Chrissie Smiff]

I am struggling Andrea. Have you found a birth reference for Ernest George? I can't find a marriage for a Charles Plant/Pleant to Ann/Anne that fits either.

[Night Owl]

On Ernest's marriage certificate, what was his occupation and address please? Also the names of the witnesses?

[Andrea E P]

He was a butcher journeyman, living Beckenham road, Penge. Father was listed as a soldier. I've found Ernest, his mother & sister living in St Mary Cray, but Charles isn't with them. I'm just off to try and find the certificate.

[Andrea E P]

Found certificate, 136 Beckenham Road, listed as Butcher, father Charles Pleant listed as soldier but not as deceased but 1881 census has Anne M Pleant listed as widowed.
Witnesses were:- 1) John Carter (bride's father) a labourer, 2) Louisa Carter (bride's sister) and 3) Annie Jackson (?).

Christ Church Penge.

[Andrea E P]

As Anne M Plant was born about 1847, I assume Charles was probably born in 1840s, and dead by 1880/81, if census is to be believed.

Also as Ernest George was born 1872 the marriage is most likely early 1870s or late 1860s.

[Chrissie Smiff]

I have a theory that might be worth hanging on to to check out.

I couldn’t find a birth for Ernest George Plant/Pleant but looked for Ernest George births in Bromley around the right time. Of the ones that came up, only one had an Anne M birth that fit, also in Bromley. The name was HUGHESMAN.
Anne Maria Hughesman was born Dec 1847 in Bromley ref 5 47.
Ernest George Hughesman was born March 1872 Bromley (which covers Cray) ref 2a 369.
A Florence Pleant was born June 1875 Dewsbury ref 9b 679.
I can’t find a birth for the third child mentioned in 1881 census.

In 1861 Anne Maria Hughesman is with her family –

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1861&indiv=try&h=6978574

On the right of this page you will see that even Ancestry recommends Anne M Plant in the 1881 census.

I can’t find any marriage for Anne M to a Plant/Pleant but I wonder if perhaps she was in Yorkshire briefly for some reason between 1872 and 1875 and perhaps had Florence with a man named Plant/Pleant (or just made the name up?).

By 1871 her mother is a widower –

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1871&h=13599101&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=8767

For anyone else trying to help – this is Ernest George in 1911 –

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_03413_0463_03/41988262?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3d1911England%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3dGeorge%2bE%26gsln%3dPleant%26msbdy%3d1902%26msbpn__ftp%3dCroydon%252c%2bSurrey%252c%2bEngland%26msbpn%3d87719%26msbpn_PInfo%3d8-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c5286%257c87719%257c0%257c%26MSAV%3d1%26uidh%3duo6%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d0%26h%3d41988262%26recoff%3d%26ml_rpos%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

[Olde Crone Holden]

I like your theory, Chrissie. To add possible weight to it, there is a marriage in 1875 of a Henry Hughesman in Dewsbury. He then has a son called CHARLES - coincidence?

OC

[Chrissie Smiff]

Good thinking OC I have just checked the census and Anne Maria Hughesman had a baby brother names Charles who was two years old in 1861 (she was 13). She also had a brother Henry who was 10. So it looks as though Charles was a family name. Perhaps she wanted to move back to Bromley, so had to invent a marriage.
I found a similar event in my husbands family.

[Olde Crone Holden]

I agree she most probably invented a marriage - but I am uneasy about the name. If you were going to make up a name, why make up one so very unusual, unless it really is PLANT and not PLEANT, as I suspect.

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

Andrea

I think you will have to get the birth cert for Ernest George Hughesman. It will be interesting to see who is named as his father - it certainly isn't Mr Pleant, otherwise that would appear as the surname.

You probably won't ever be able to prove that Mr Pleant was/wasn't his biological father, unfortunately, but a look at the birth cert may give a clue. I'd want to get the other two as well, to see what they say.

OC

[Chrissie Smiff]

I have found a marriage on 4th September 1898 of a Rose/Rosa Annie Pleant aged 21. She gives her father as Charles Pleant a deceased soldier. I believe this is the third child listed in 1881 but I can't find a birth that fits for her and I have tried many different options for first and last names.

[Olde Crone Holden]

FWIW: I have checked Scotlands People for marriages etc - none.

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

What about

Rosa Annie PLANT Dec 1877 King's Norton 6c 429

I know it's not Bromley, but who knows?

OC

[Chrissie Smiff]

Sorry I should have mentioned that one. I followed her through and she is with parents (not father Charles).

[Olde Crone Holden]

Aw, that's a big shame Chrissie - a new barracks opened in Kings Norton in 1877!

OC

[Chrissie Smiff]

just checked again to remind myself OC. She is actually with grandparents David and Annie James. Funnily enough they have another granddaughter there named Florence A James aged 8. Rosa A Plant is 3. Both born Kings Norton.

On 'our'1881 Florence Plant is 6 born Yorkshire and Rose/Rosa A Plant is 2 born Deptford. Also of course is Ernest G Plant Aged 9 Born Cray Kent.