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siamesewillow
11-09-15, 11:38
Yes, I have put this request on other sites but with a fresh pair of eyes Elizabeth may be found.

Elizabeth Coole 1844-1940 Bristol, parents John and Elinor Coole. In 1866 Elizabeth married William Charles Trott b 1841 Bristol. They have no children at least none that I can find. On the 1871 census they have a Niece Florence Coole staying with them (the census spells Florence's surname as Cook) William is a Shipwright. In 1877 William dies.

In 1891 Elizabeth is living with her sister Matilda in Bristol.
In 1901 Elizabeth is living with her mother Elenor in Bristol
In 1911 Elizabeth is living on her own in Bristol.

But where was Elizabeth in 1881?

Any help would be appreciated.

siamese

Darksecretz
11-09-15, 12:38
hi do you have william's death cert at all? [I was wondering if she registered his death and if it gave a place of residence]

siamesewillow
11-09-15, 13:17
Not at present, have just ordered one for William's parents marriage, so William's death certificate will be the next. I have found a death reg on ancestry in 1877 Bristol, but its for a Charles thinking he may of dropped his first name. As a shipwright its possible he died aboard?

Darksecretz
11-09-15, 13:57
Not at present, have just ordered one for William's parents marriage, so William's death certificate will be the next. I have found a death reg on ancestry in 1877 Bristol, but its for a Charles thinking he may of dropped his first name. As a shipwright its possible he died aboard?

not sure but I think a shipwright was a ship builder, so I wouldn't have thought he'd die abroad. From looking in the census he does seem to stay in Bristol area though.

Darksecretz
11-09-15, 14:01
presumably you have found William's baptism and marriage on Ancestry?

Darksecretz
11-09-15, 14:12
I have found only one death record for a William Trott in Bedminster dist in 1885, though this one I don't think is 'your' william I think it is the cab driver william that was living in Bedminster dist in 1881.

here: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&h=18836314&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=8914

Darksecretz
11-09-15, 14:21
Name: Charles Trott
Estimated birth year: abt 1843
Registration Year: 1877
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 34
Registration district: Bristol
Volume: 6a
Page: 17

which could correspond with:

Name: Charles Trott
Burial Date: 8 May 1877
Burial Place: Bristol, Holy Trinity, St Philip, Gloucestershire, England
Burial Age: 34
FHL Film Number: 4183229

then there is this one:

Name: Charles Trott
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Registration Year: 1877
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 31
Registration district: Bristol
Volume: 6a
Page: 17

which isn't very helpful!

siamesewillow
11-09-15, 20:33
I have both the birth and marriage certificate for William Charles Trott, born and married in Bristol, although his father came from Somerset and Mother Wales.

siamesewillow
11-09-15, 20:36
Name: William Charles Trott
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 30 May 1841
Christening Place: TEMPLE, BRISTOL, GLOUCESTER, ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: John Trott
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Charlotte
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C17295-4
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 1597124
Reference ID:

Darksecretz
11-09-15, 21:10
yep I saw his bapt and his marriage transcripts on Ancestry.... [was kinda hoping that I may find a burial there too but that didn't happen!]

Darksecretz
11-09-15, 21:24
have you seen the two workhouse entries for W C Trott b.1843 and in a workhouse 1904 his occupation is carpenter, I can't spot him yet though on the census.

Darksecretz
11-09-15, 21:26
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gss=angs-g&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=W+C&gsln=trott&msbdy_x=1&msbdp=5&MSAV=1&msbdy=1841&msbpn__ftp=Bristol%2c+Gloucestershire%2c+England&msbpn=202043&msbpn_PInfo=8-%7c0%7c0%7c3257%7c3251%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c5265%7c202043 %7c0%7c&_83004003-n_xcl=f&cpxt=1&cp=11&catbucket=rstp&uidh=lg3&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=13355366&recoff=7+8&db=LondonAdminDisch&indiv=1&ml_rpos=20

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gss=angs-g&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=W+C&gsln=trott&msbdy_x=1&msbdp=5&MSAV=1&msbdy=1841&msbpn__ftp=Bristol%2c+Gloucestershire%2c+England&msbpn=202043&msbpn_PInfo=8-%7c0%7c0%7c3257%7c3251%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c5265%7c202043 %7c0%7c&_83004003-n_xcl=f&cpxt=1&cp=11&catbucket=rstp&uidh=lg3&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=14563616&recoff=7+8&db=LondonAdminDisch&indiv=1&ml_rpos=21

clematised
11-09-15, 22:22
Hi siamese,

I hope you can get some fresh help here to find your elusive, nice to see you back here again looking for help

Edna

siamesewillow
12-09-15, 06:31
I've saved that workhouse entry, may be useful. Thanks.

On the 1891 census Elizabeth is described a Wid. But if the marriage was no more she may say she was a widow.

siamese

siamesewillow
12-09-15, 06:37
At the end of the day I am going to have to order 2 death certs even if it's just to eliminate them. Mind you one at a time.

Darksecretz
12-09-15, 09:07
I've saved that workhouse entry, may be useful. Thanks.

On the 1891 census Elizabeth is described a Wid. But if the marriage was no more she may say she was a widow.

siamese

That's true she could have stated being a widow just to 'save face' [if that is her W C in the workhouse!] oh dear that does look bad doesn't it? a WC in the workhouse


At the end of the day I am going to have to order 2 death certs even if it's just to eliminate them. Mind you one at a time.

hmmn, I am very tempted to say to go for Charles first, as that was the more likely looking one. BUT I have just thought, you are in Cheltenham I know that it isn't that far from Bristol, [praps an hour? half? by car] what if you contacted the church for the burial of Charles and see if it gives any additional info? [ie 'husband of' ]


scratch that idea, seems the church is no longer in use as a church! though I did find this:

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-Records/gloucestershire-bristol-burial-index-1625-1950

but I also think that if you find a local studies library that has parish records for Holy Trinity, St Phils on fiche then you can go through the records and see if it is him.

Darksecretz
12-09-15, 09:15
have you looked through here to see if there is anything?

http://www.genfair.co.uk/product_list.php?sid=22&page=102124

siamesewillow
12-09-15, 13:21
"http://www.genfair.co.uk/product_lis...22&page=102124"

Yes I have only get Charles died 1877. I subscribe to the Bristol and Avon family history so I'll contact them. I have visited the Bristol RO but not a easy place to get to,(do not drive)

siamese

TrevorFranklin
12-09-15, 16:12
With the name Coole, and the fact that there is a large number of Pooles all in that area
I would suggest a think outside the box and check to see if any mis-transcriptions to Poole may have occurred in that family name

siamesewillow
12-09-15, 18:04
TrevorFranklin

Its Coole not Pooles I'M RESEARCHING

Darksecretz
12-09-15, 18:17
"http://www.genfair.co.uk/product_lis...22&page=102124"

Yes I have only get Charles died 1877. I subscribe to the Bristol and Avon family history so I'll contact them. I have visited the Bristol RO but not a easy place to get to,(do not drive)

siamese

I know what you mean.. maybe someone from the FHS can do a little research for you? [especially if you don't drive] I have had another thought too, what if you contact Bristol Register office and ask them if they could supply the cert to you if his occupation as shipwright? or explain the situation to them and see if they could advise on the situation at all.

I think what Trevor is getting at the the Poole name is that it can sound like Coole too, so, maybe someone misheard/misunderstood etc. [though we know that Elizabeth married W C so her name was Trott and not Coole]

merleyone
12-09-15, 18:46
Do you have any indication William Charles Trott was a Shipwright? In the 1861 & 1871 censuses he is shown as a Ship Carpenter's apprentice and a Ship Carpenter respectively and a Ship Carpenter is not a Shipwright. As has been said previously a Shipwright is engaged on the building of ships/boats but a Ship Carpenter is a crew member of a vessel with the responsibility to maintain and repair the vessel. As such, a Ship Carpenter goes to sea and a death overseas should not be ruled out. Bristol Record Office apparently has a crew list from 1865 showing a WC Trott, b. 1840, Bristol, as a Carpenter in the crew of the 'Sir James', a sail vessel.
An Index of Merchant Seamen on FMP also shows at least three men named William Trott who were ticketed (registered) at Bristol as Merchant Seamen, each with a different number but no further information or date, infuriatingly.
It is not be unknown for a seaman to have jumped ship overseas, willingly or unwillingly so this particular mystery may run for a while yet.
Like everybody else, I could not find any trace of Elizabeth Trott in the 1881 census, which was the original search.

merleyone

siamesewillow
12-09-15, 23:21
On William and Charles marriage certificate William's occupation was Shipwright, but maybe he did carpentry as well, yes I see he was an apprentice and a ship carpenter. May account why he disappeared. Personally I have grave doubts about that 1877. death.

siamese

Val wish Id never started
12-09-15, 23:40
might be worth getting her will if this is it17793

Val wish Id never started
12-09-15, 23:52
dont know if you have seen this17794

siamesewillow
13-09-15, 07:18
Yes, Val, I had seen the will entry, Albert was her Nephew. But had not seen the navy entry,was it from FMP?
Also found this entry which may have nothing to do with my William
"First name(s) William
Last name Trott
Birth year -
Admission year 1911
Age -
Trade Carpenters & joiners
Union name Amalgamated Society of Carpenters & Joiners
Union branch Bristol 2
Union branch as transcribed Bristol 2
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Archive Modern Records Centre
Archive reference MSS.78/ASCJ/2/3/2
Title Reference Book
Dates 1911
Information contained Members who originally joined one branch who have since transferred to another branch, organised by original branch joined
No of volumes 1
Record set Britain, Trade Union membership registers
Category Education & work
Subcategory Guild & Trade Associations
Collections from Great Britain"

Darksecretz
13-09-15, 08:29
On William and Charles marriage certificate William's occupation was Shipwright, but maybe he did carpentry as well, yes I see he was an apprentice and a ship carpenter. May account why he disappeared. Personally I have grave doubts about that 1877. death.

siamese


ahhhhh I would think that he 'bigged up' his occupation to impress his in-laws, or maybe even impress his wife/friends.

merleyone
13-09-15, 09:36
Elizabeth Trott died at 100 Fishponds Road, Bristol, which was the site of Eastville Workhouse although at some time in the 1930s it was renamed as Eastville Institute. The address alone was well known in the city as the Workhouse and rarely needed any clarification.
Googling '100 Fishponds Road, Bristol' will tell you all you want to know about this place.

merleyone

siamesewillow
13-09-15, 10:22
Did not know that, Mereleyone, but it makes me cross as her brother was very wealthy, unless it acted as a hospital.

DoctorGeoff
14-09-15, 22:08
For what it is worth, I have had a problem with a transcription on the 1901 census:
Three of my great aunts - surname Poole - were transcribed as Coole.

I did report this, and when the census went through a process of correcting errors, the name was spelt correctly - but all three ladies became male.

Geoff

siamesewillow
15-09-15, 07:12
DoctorGeoff, How right you are, on the 1851 census Coole is translated as Cool"s" when you go into the original you can see its a "e" not a "s" bad translation. But on saying that the writing on some of the originals has a lot to be desired

siamese

Janet in Yorkshire
15-09-15, 09:51
But in all fairness to the transcribers, often we are able to identify errors simply because we are very aware of the actual name that was recorded and so can make it out.

Jay