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Birth and Baptism has Fathers name but not mothers ?

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  • Birth and Baptism has Fathers name but not mothers ?

    I think I have found the Birth of somebody I am looking for , its in the Births and Baptisms on FMP ,but it says the persons name and his Fathers name but not his Mother, what reason would this be. Thanks

  • #2
    If it's an entry from back in the early days of church registers its not that uncommon, I guess the mother wasn't seen as important. I have also come across early registers where the vicar just recorded "baptised a child of John Smith" even the name and sex of the chld was ignored.
    Judith passed away in October 2018

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    • #3
      oh really Judith I learn something new every day, this was in 1882

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Val wish Id never started View Post
        oh really Judith I learn something new every day, this was in 1882
        That does seem a bit late for such an entry, the ones I've come across were much earlier. I suppose it could just be that when it came to writing up the register the vicar had forgotten the mother's name and they had already left the church.
        Judith passed away in October 2018

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        • #5
          I have no idea what I am talking about but is there any possibility that the mother may have died in childbirth. Although I have incidents of this in my Ancestry, I cannot recall any baptism's which would prove or disprove this theory.
          Bubblebelle x

          FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

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          • #6
            Bubblebelle

            I have a few early baptisms (pre-registration) where a baby is baptised the same day as the mother is buried and it states that in the margin.

            The only reason for leaving the mother's name off a baptism in the 1880s is error! I've never been a subscriber to FMP, so is the baptism transcribed or an image? If transcribed, I'd say it's just a transcription error. If it's an image, then it is the vicar's error!

            OC

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            • #7
              Where and when, Val?
              It could be a BT/AT record rather than a register entry - sometimes some of the annual returns were lacking in detail :(

              Jay
              Janet in Yorkshire



              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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              • #8
                as its not a look up I'll put it on hereWilliam Matthews 1882.jpg
                Last edited by Guest; 31-08-15, 22:43.

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                • #9
                  It doesn't come up on FMP for me - but I don't have the UK-based sub, so it may not have arrived yet.

                  There's one on FamilySearch, but that comes up
                  Name William Matthews
                  Gender Male
                  Birth Date 15 Jul 1882
                  Birthplace Liverpool, Lancashire, England
                  Father's Name William Matthews
                  And there's one on Lancashire OPC - but the birth is in Golborne, which is half way between Liverpool and Manchester.

                  Christine
                  Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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                  • #10
                    I found it on FMP and I think the source is a familysearch.org film.
                    I also found it on familysearch.org, but couldn't work out exactly which original record the transcription was made from.
                    I'm finding this is now happening quite a lot on familysearch. There seems to be a move to add transcriptions to the database asap, but it is becoming increasingly difficult to work out just what record (or reference) has been transcribed and, therefore, how reliable/useful it is.:(

                    Jay
                    Janet in Yorkshire



                    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                    • #11
                      The same transcription comes up on Ancestry, linked back to familysearch.org. Seems that some of the records in this collection of English births and baptisms may well have appeared in the old IGI or the vital records collections.:(

                      Jay
                      Janet in Yorkshire



                      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                      • #12
                        This is the fs record?
                        Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


                        from the detail, it comes from film #2147930, which is described here:
                        Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


                        The Woolton chapelry seems like the more likely source of the record...but that's not in Liverpool?

                        The school is, but it doesn't cover the year of the birth, and I didn't know that FS was indexing any schools?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Val wish Id never started View Post
                          I think I have found the Birth of somebody I am looking for , its in the Births and Baptisms on FMP ,but it says the persons name and his Fathers name but not his Mother, what reason would this be. Thanks
                          The reason is very simple in the eyes of the church a married couple are one person.

                          On marriage in England & Wales the bride takes the groom's name therefore the married couple are known under the husband's name.

                          Cheers
                          Guy
                          Guy passed away October 2022

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                          • #14
                            Yes Guy but baptism registers (CofE) from1813 onwards have a column for "parents' names" so one would expect the mother's Christian name to be recorded there
                            Last edited by JudithM; 01-09-15, 08:47.
                            Judith passed away in October 2018

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                            • #15
                              All the baptism registers I've looked at for the 1800s (and I have looked at THOUSANDS) have the mother's first name as as that of the father. e.g.

                              John Smith son of Fred Smith and Mary

                              I agree with JAY, some of the old submitted records on FS are now appearing as if they are extracted from church records but they aren't and the source is so vague and difficult to find that they are nearly useless.

                              OC

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Record Description


                                England Births and Christenings 1538 - 1975

                                "This index is an electronic index for the years 1538 to 1975. It is not necessarily intended to index any specific set of records. This index is not complete for any particular place or region. This collection may include information previously published in the International Genealogical Index or Vital Records Index collections."

                                :(:(

                                Jay
                                Janet in Yorkshire



                                Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Jay

                                  Isn't it maddening? At least with the old system I knew instantly whether a record was extracted or submitted AND how to find out where the extracted record came from.

                                  We were told that the "new" FS would have only extracted records. This is not true and, from my point of view certainly, it is now much more difficult to find out where the information originated.

                                  OC

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                                  • #18
                                    Having transcribed for family search, there are times when the name is so illegible that it is impossible to even hazard a guess at any of the letters in a name, maybe it is the case here. I hope you can find the source document to answer the puzzle.
                                    Bubblebelle x

                                    FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by bubblebelle View Post
                                      Having transcribed for family search, there are times when the name is so illegible that it is impossible to even hazard a guess at any of the letters in a name, maybe it is the case here. I hope you can find the source document to answer the puzzle.
                                      Don't think so, Bubblebelle -
                                      1) in the above scenario you would at least be able to enter surname for the mother
                                      2) no parish or place of worship is named in the record, just the name "Liverpool," which could include city centre, outer districts and ANY denomination.

                                      Jay
                                      Janet in Yorkshire



                                      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by JudithM View Post
                                        Yes Guy but baptism registers (CofE) from1813 onwards have a column for "parents' names" so one would expect the mother's Christian name to be recorded there
                                        I wouldn't, the registers were printed by order of the government not by order of the church.
                                        The wording was therefore not necessarily compiled by someone with Christian principles.

                                        However the register was filled in by a vicar or cleric who would be following the guidance of the church (as he understood it).

                                        Of course much depends whether this is a single occurrence in the relevant register or a common occurrence.

                                        It may also depend on the parents, my own mother signed all her official documents as Mrs Richard Etchells and it was not until 15 or 20 years after my father had deserted us that she finally started signing herself as Mrs A.E. Etchells (old habits die hard).

                                        Cheers
                                        Guy
                                        Guy passed away October 2022

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