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John has given me the slip!

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  • John has given me the slip!

    John Murnane/Murmame bc 1816 Ireland, I have him on the 1851 (H0107, 2175, 704. p 22). I have spent hours and hours looking for any more records of him and his family and have drawn a blank. I have looked for all the members listed on the 1851, apart from his wife Mary as she died 1858) as well as John's second wife, also called Mary ( which I think is a correct marriage, in 1859) on other census, marriages and deaths, as well as passenger lists in case they emigrated. I have searched with no surname, variations of the Murnane surname and have found nothing. I am left with three options; it is a brick wall, they went back to Ireland ( all of them) or the name was changed. Can anybody find anything or suggest why they seemed to have vanished off the face of the earth please? They can't have all just vanished! Thanks very much.

  • #2
    so in the 1851 Census, he was living in Birkenhead, Cheshire. Is that correct?

    Name Age
    John Murmane 35
    Mary Murmane 37 b.ca 1814, Ireland
    Michael Murmane 6 b.ca 1845, Ireland
    Mary Anne Murmane 1 b.ca 1850, Frodsham, Cheshire
    Ann McMahon 13 b.ca 1838, Ireland, Sister-in-law
    My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

    Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

    Comment


    • #3
      How common is the name Murnane???

      There is a Public Family Tree on ancestry for Cornelius Murnane born 1816 in Toureen Parish, Bansha, Tipperary, Ireland. Died 5 MAY 1866 in Toureen Cashel, Tipperary, Ireland

      No parents known .............


      could there be a connection??
      My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

      Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes, that's right. I have searched also for the daughter Mary Anne, born Frodsham, but found nothing, on further census, taking into account she could have been married and just searching first name, dob and pob and found nothing.

        There may well be a connection, but I have no idea where John was born in Ireland. And not having found him on any further census after 1851 I don't know if he ever divulged a place/town.
        Last edited by reuben30; 22-07-15, 19:26.

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        • #5
          ???????????????????


          UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960

          Name: Mary Ann Murnane
          Gender: Female
          Age: 57
          Birth Date: abt 1851
          Departure Date: 25 Jan 1908
          Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
          Destination Port: Boston, USA
          Ship Name: Cymric
          Search Ship Database: Search for the Cymric in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
          Shipping line: White Star Line
          Official Number: 106898
          Master: Wm Fench

          Mary Ann is shown as Dressmaker, and is accompanied by Teresa age 26 and Agnes J age 21, also Dressmakers
          My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

          Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks very much - that's interesting. It may be the daughter or it could be her married name? I think that Teresa and Agnes may be her daughters? But I have something to investigate now. I am also thinking it could be that Mary Ann is the wife of Michael, John Murnane's son on the 1851? Was that record on A****Y?

            Comment


            • #7
              perhaps not!!

              This looks like Teresa and Agnes on the 1901 Census, living in Everton

              Name Age
              Thomas Murmane 72 Widower, pensioner
              Mary Murmane 34 b.ca 1867, Ireland, Daughter, Dressmaker
              Patrick Murmane 29
              Teresa Murmane 20 b.ca 1881, Ireland, Dressmaker
              Thomas Murmane 17
              Agnes Murmane 14 b.ca 1887, Ireland, Dressmaker
              Bridget King 20


              thought I had Mary Ann then ..... but seriously doubt it!!
              My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

              Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

              Comment


              • #8
                yes, all records from Ancestry
                My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

                Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Right - so not them then unfortunately. I thought I had a lead then...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    from ancestry, the 1920 US census shows that Teresa and Agnes are living in Suffolk, Massachusetts ............. that is all I can see as I do not have ancestry worldwide.


                    but, yes, I think that has ruled out that family as being your Mary Ann :(
                    My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

                    Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      from ancestry, the 1920 US census shows that Teresa and Agnes are living in Suffolk, Massachusetts ............. that is all I can see as I do not have ancestry worldwide.


                      but, yes, I think that has ruled out that family as being your Mary Ann :(



                      OOOPS sorry ....... duplicate posting
                      Last edited by Sylvia C; 22-07-15, 20:42.
                      My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)

                      Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        From Genes reunited
                        John Murnane 1811 Ballybricken Co Limerick tree owner Hilary

                        John Murnane 1811 Tipperary Ireland tree owner Ron

                        These are the only two John's born Ireland within 5 years of your date

                        Edna

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks for trying. I am not on ancestry so can't see any details - but I will bear these in mind.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hello Reuben30

                            Just wanted to confirm you have Ann McMahon tracked. Can see an Ann McMahon marrying a John Higgins in 1859, at the same time John possibly re-married Mary Dolan, following her sister/mother's death in 1858. Ann and John together until 1886 when she died and he is still there until 1911.

                            As you say they just vanished. Not only John but where is Michael and Mary Ann. Can't see them anywhere but you don't want to know that.

                            Will keep on looking

                            Vera
                            Last edited by vera2013; 25-07-15, 11:38.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I suppose Michael and Mary Ann could have gone with their aunt/sister Ann when she married and been known as Higgins or even McMahon? By 1861 they could have been in "living in" employment - where did Ann McMahon & Mr Higgins live?

                              Jay
                              Janet in Yorkshire



                              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                              • #16
                                Hope I'm not butting in but if your on the case Jay, the one I found remained in Birkenhead and for all the census, there was no John, Michael of Mary Ann. Only Lodgers. John Higgins was a Labourer born Ireland.

                                Vera

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                                • #17
                                  Yes, that's right. I didn't find any trace of John, wife ( second wife that is, ) Mary and son Michael and daughter Mary Ann after the 1851 census. No deaths even with a slightly different surname, nor marriages for Michael and Mary Ann. I even looked for any Mary/Mary Ann born Frodsham but nothing stood out. They literally vanished. I just can't believe that there is not one more record of them anywhere, even for immigration. Very strange! Thanks for your replies and help in trying to find something out for this mystery. The only other thought I had was that they changed their name, but to what??

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    There is a tree that has a Michael Murnane with a Margaret in Connecticut. He emigrated/immigrated in 1865 and her in 1853. Married in the USA 1871 approx. That Michael was a Stevedore which I believe is the same as a Docker. Easily traceable through the census plus other records but no clues as to whether he is John's son.

                                    Ancestry is good at throwing up names similar to but not showing anything likely so they could possibly have changed their name. There is a Dillon family in Birkenhead but that John is a Stonemason. May be they ended up institutionalised either as a family or split up with the children at industrial schools.

                                    Vera

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                                    • #19
                                      Thanks very much for looking and trying. I guess this is another one to put to one side.......until I have a brain storm as to how to search out any more information.....

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