taylor /schreider

[julip]

I have just discovered that my Taylor Family ,butchers in Berwick,Northumberland ,may originally have been called Schreider, not sure of the spelling, from Gemany/Prussia . Francis seems to be the common name in the family ,but could be a variation of the original name Have tried naturalisation records but nothing is appearing .Date is not known but could be 1800 approx .Any help would be appreciated
Julip

[Karamazov]

I have just discovered that my Taylor Family ,butchers in Berwick,Northumberland ,may originally have been called Schreider, not sure of the spelling, from Gemany/Prussia . Francis seems to be the common name in the family ,but could be a variation of the original name Have tried naturalisation records but nothing is appearing .Date is not known but could be 1800 approx .Any help would be appreciated
Julip

Just a quick thought and it may be a total red herring - but the German word for tailor is Schneider so it would make a nice neat anglicisation of the surname to Taylor.

Christine

[Olde Crone Holden]

I was just about to post the same info as Karamazov!

However, if you think the name change occurred around 1800, I doubt if they ever bothered getting naturalised. Best thing to do is to trace them back as far as you can as TAYLOR and when that info disappears, start looking at Schneider.

OC

[julip]

I think that sounds absolutely right ,brilliant . It is possible I may have misheard the pronounciation . I have just found this 1911 census for a family of TAYLORS in High Street Berwick . The parents Harry Taylor,pork butcher,and Rosie Taylor b WARTENBURG (Gococauf?) 1872 ,children born 1899 onwards Berwick . It also lists them as N.B.S Naturalised British Subjects ? 1903, 8 years . I am going to have a look at previous census in detail, just had a quick look, but it looks like there were Taylors before 1872 in Berwick .My great great great grandfather Francis Taylor was born 1818 c ,and his father on his death cert is listed as Francis Taylor ,druggist .That was why I thought the name change was before 1800.
Many thanks Christine and OC.

[julip]

Just found an English version of German name Franziska is Francis ! Found Schneiders in Wartenburg, so Franziska Schneider would be
Francis Taylor .am I on the right track ?
Julip

[Olde Crone Holden]

I'd be a bit careful...if the family you have found in 1911 are yours, then they won't have been in the UK very long (born in Wurtemburg). Look for the naturalisation papers.

Where did you get the information that their name was previously Schneider? What evidence is there for that?

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

Oh look!

Henry Schneider m Rosie Sahm, Mar 1896 Berwick 10b 532.

So, either get the marriage cert or the naturalisation papers...or both! It doesn't really look like there's a connection with the Taylors in 1818 at first glance, but you will have to go back one generation at a time.

OC

[julip]

When I was in Berwick Archives last week I happened to mention to the archivist I was going to the station to meet a couple of my Taylor cousins ,and did she know where the butchers were,as I wanted to show them round the town ,houses,churches etc. She pointed to a lady doing some research there ,and it turned out that her family were butchers about the same time as the Taylors . She remembers her mother telling her that they changed their name, but didn`t know when. My grandmother obviously knew about the butcher`s shops ,but her family lost touch with other members of her family when her mother died young leaving7 children , they were all split up. It is a bit of a puzzle as I have found an 1841 census with at least 2 Taylor families . Will have a look at other census records . Seemingly there is a Harry Taylor still living in Berwick, whose father had butcher shops in Spittal. Tweedmouth,and Berwick . My Francis Taylor b 1818 just states his birthplace as England .Still a bit of sleuthing to do I fear . Will get marriage and nat.papers.
Thanks OC

Julip

[Olde Crone Holden]

I would GUESS they changed their name when they naturalised in 1903 and that they have no connection with the other Taylors in the town as Taylor is quite a common name.

Let us know what the MC/naturalisation papers say.

OC

[julip]

I will , thanks OC.

julip

[julip]

I found the naturalisation papers dated for 3rd Sept 1903 for Harry Taylor .It gave his parents names ,suggesting they are still in Germany. Harry got married in 1896 as Schneider, 1901 census they are Taylor ,so must have changed their names between those dates . I think you are right O.C it doesn`t look like this is my family .My Taylors were down as Taylors for Francis b 1818, and his father is down as Francis Taylor also , getting back to 1780c for father. Back to the drawing board , birthplace for Francis B 1818 on census records is England !! A bit frustrating to say the least .
Appreciate your input
Julip

[Olde Crone Holden]

Ah, disappointing but at least you won't waste any more time going down the wrong path! Can you find yours on all census?

OC

[julip]

I can find Francis Taylor b 1818 on 1841,1851,and 1861 census records in Dunbar,E Lothian ,Scotland , all state born in England . He died in 1868 in Dunbar . I can`t find a birth for him in Berwick, sometimes England means Berwick ,especially if you are near the border. My Gran was born in Berwick, but on 1911 census is stated as born in England .Can`t find a death for his father b 1780c in Berwick either .
julip

[Olde Crone Holden]

Julip

I sympathise, I have ancestors from Berwick and can hardly find any information about them at all. Butchers, funnily enough!

OC

[julip]

Will plod on , the thought I might find them someday keeps me going .
julip

[julip]

OC
Don`t know if this is any use to you but the name of the lady who told me about the German Taylors was Edminston (sic).Her family were butchers too. Just been contacted by a descendant of the German Schneider/ Taylor family . We are exchanging info. Maybe find something in common .
Evelyn

[Marguerite]

Hi

I am new here and saw your posting whilst Googling Pork Butchers in Berwick.
I can confirm that the Heinrich Schneider you mention (name change 1903 to Harry Taylor) was born in Railhof, Künzelsau around 1872. He married Rosina Sahm and is the brother of Barbara Schneider who married Charles Heinzmann, a pork butcher living in Benwell, Northumberland.

Harry Taylor Schneider was a very well known man. He owned "Cumberland Bower" a farm nearby.

I, too, have Heinzmann ancestors who emigrated to Bradford, Yorks and then to Northwich, Cheshire. My grandfather Christian Louis Pfisterer joined them there and married an English woman. The Heinzmanns were his Cousins.

Marguerite

[clematised]

Welcome to the forum Marguerite,
I am sure julip will be happy to hear from you, I will send a private message to her

Edna