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  • Bella Raphael

    Please can somebody help. Been approached by a Frenchman on campsite who is trying to trace his family history.

    He knows his grandmother was Bella (Isabella) Raphael born in 1898. Living in London 1920s, went back to France 1929 to have his mother who she later abandoned in France.

    His grandmother worked as a dressmaker. Sorry, that is all I have to go on and am operating on an iPhone so not getting far.

    Thanks

    Di

  • #2
    Hi Di
    Nice to see you on here again. Lucky you being approached by a Frenchman.
    Moggie

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    • #3
      there is a Bala Raphael born 1898 in Whitechapel July quarter. Not seeing an Isabella or Bella

      aargh cant find her on the census :(
      Last edited by Janet H.; 27-06-15, 17:00.

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      • #4
        That is brilliant thanks.

        He's even older than me Moggie and that's going some.

        Di

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        • #5
          Forgot to say we think she is Jewish

          Di

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          • #6
            just a quick question as I cant find a Bella or Isabella - was Raphael her married name or birth name

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            • #7
              Hi Di
              You say in your first post that she went back to France in 1929 does this mean that she was born there & came here to work in the early 1920s? If so I don't think there will be any records that she appears on. I can't see her on passenger lists either coming or going back to France.
              Moggie

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              • #8
                As far as we can get with our French she was born Raphael. Popped back to France to have the baby called Andrea. Then abandoned her in France at a later date xx

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                • #9
                  How does he know that she was born in 1898 Di? It sounds as though he may have a few more clues that might help.
                  I did find an Ella Raphael born in London in 1900 that I wondered about. In case she decided that she preferred her name with a B in the front. I believe she went on to have two children, a boy and a girl. I assume that he doesn't know anything about her life after 1920 though?
                  Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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                  • #10
                    He had some pieces of paper in French where somebody had had a go looking for him. He had her name, date of birth, religion,occupation, the fact that she had come from London to give birth to his mother who she had abandoned as she was penniless and that was about it.

                    His mother had obviously been kept in England for some time as she couldn't speak French when questioned by the authorities.
                    My friend found an Isabella Raphael living in Peckham in the 1920s but no occupation on the Electoral Register
                    Di

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                    • #11
                      Di

                      Quite unusual for a woman, especially a foreign woman, to have the vote in the 20s (before 1928) unless she was a property owner, so that might be worth following up to see if she was listed before and after and what kind of house it was. A dressmaker is unlikely to have been able to afford to buy a property. Of course, dressmaker is often used as a cover for something else, lol, but perhaps don't tell your contact that!

                      OC

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                      • #12
                        She was living with two men, neither of whom sounded Jewish. In fact one was called Mountford Sanger!! I wonder why she went to France to have the baby, surely could just have disappeared off in London

                        Di

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                        • #13
                          Hmmm, Mountford Sanger was married (to Fanny Young) in 1912.

                          Yes, why didn't she just give birth in London? Sounds as if someone paid her off and gave her the money to go home to France.

                          OC

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                          • #14
                            Mountford Sanger died 16th Oct 1942 in Hertfordshire. Probate to Barclays Bank & Isabel Raphael, widow. Effects £4412. 4s.2d. His wife Fanny remarried the following year.
                            Moggie

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                            • #15
                              This was 1926-38 so she had baby in 1929 if her. Frederick Saltmarsh lived there too
                              D

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                              • #16
                                So don't think can be my Bella Raphael if she and Mountford were married
                                D

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                                • #17
                                  Oh well found Moggie!

                                  Di - it doesn't mean that Isobel was HIS widow (she's called Isabel Raphael not Sanger) it just means she is a widow. Widow was probably to make herself sound respectable.

                                  OC

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                                  • #18
                                    Oh right. Wonder why Fanny didn't get probate

                                    D

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                                    • #19
                                      I don't think they were 'officially' married Di. He was still married to Fanny R Sanger(nee Young). Also, as Moggie pointed out, Fanny remarried as soon as she could.

                                      Oops - just seen OC's post.
                                      Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 28-06-15, 11:09.
                                      Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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                                      • #20
                                        There's a marriage between an Isabelle Raphael & Joseph A Mullings 1945 Epping Essex & the death of an Isabelle Mullings born 1899 in Mar qtr 1976, Ware, Hertfordshire.
                                        Moggie

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