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  • Need Help with Jewish Research

    Hi Everyone,

    I've just registered after finding this website in a book that I've just read, called "The Daddy of all Mysteries". So some of your usernames feel almost famous to me !

    I'm struggling to find the birth of Louis Davis (deceased). The story is that he came to England from Russia with his brother and on arrival they were given different surnames, however this is only family lore.

    The first record that I have of him is his marriage certificate to Esther Bensusan (deceased) on 8/6/1896. The next record I have is of Louis and Esther Davis on the 1901 Census, with their first 4 children, living at 15 Lower Fenton Street, Stepney. Louis gives his age as 34 years and his place of birth as Spitalfields, London. This puts his year of birth about 1867.

    They then appear on the 1911 Census, living at 20 Albion Street, Mile End Road, with their 6 surviving children. Louis gives his age as 44 years and his place of birth as Bethnal Green, London, so this is consistent to what he said on the 1901 census.

    I also find Louis and Esther several times on the London Electoral Rolls after 1901 which I now understand you can only be eligible to be on if you were born in the UK or had naturalised.

    So why can't I find Louis on a census prior to his marriage to Esther Bensusan ? Where was he ?

    On his marriage certificate he gives his father's name as Solomon Davis, not deceased at the time of Louis' marriage but obviously now deceased, and Solomon's profession was a boot finisher.

    When I met the lady who wrote the book at the JGSGB conference, she suggested the name may have been originally Davidson / Davidvitch or some similar spelling. This could be true because when I found Esther and Louis' graves in East Ham Cemetery there was a Hebrew inscription on Esther's which read "Esther daughter of Zelig, widdow of Yehuda son of David". So maybe this was what the name Davis was anglicised from ? She also advised me to join this website and open a thread, so here I am !

    I would really appreciate any help/advice and I'm looking forward to hopefully helping others in return, and to find people looking for the same family that I'm researching.

    Mole

  • #2
    Hi, Mole - Welcome to FTF!

    Can you post the links to the census records?

    In my very limited exposure to Jewish research, I can confirm that a change in surnames was common - sometimes different siblings might have different new surnames. Sometimes they were translations, other times anglicizations.

    You mention the Esther's gravestone inscription - was there none on Louis'?

    There are London Jewish newspapers. A brief subscription to British Newspapers (I think that's the correct site) may be quite useful.

    Comment


    • #3
      There is a Birth for a Lewis Davis Dec quarter of 1868 Bethnal Green 1C 257

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Mole and welcome to the forum.

        Unless we can find a potential Louis Davis in census 1891 or earlier, we do not have any actual documentation that he WAS born in London, or even England. I have found that place of birth given in census was not always accurate: sometimes it was a deliberate evasion of the true facts, sometimes it was a misunderstanding of the question "Where are you from?/Where did you come from?" (in my grandfather's case, his answer of "Ipswich" was because that is where he sailed from when travelling from East Anglia to Northumberland - his county of birth was Norfolk, not Suffolk.)

        Have you any information about the brother (e.g forename), which might give us clues?

        Jay
        Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 20-06-15, 09:00.
        Janet in Yorkshire



        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

        Comment


        • #5
          There are some naturalisation records at the National Archives - have you investigated these at all?
          The official archive of the UK government. Our vision is to lead and transform information management, guarantee the survival of today's information for tomorrow and bring history to life for everyone.


          Jay
          Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 20-06-15, 09:07.
          Janet in Yorkshire



          Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

          Comment


          • #6
            For anyone else trying to help, these are a few census -

            1901 Louis and Esther - http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/78...l=ReturnRecord

            and 1911 Louis and Esther - http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/23...l=ReturnRecord

            1891 Esther with her family - http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/65...l=ReturnRecord
            Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 20-06-15, 11:52.
            Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Chrissie Smiff View Post
              For anyone else trying to help, these are a few census -

              1901 Louis and Esther - http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/78...l=ReturnRecord

              and 1911 Louis and Esther - http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/23...l=ReturnRecord

              1891 Esther with her family - http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/65...l=ReturnRecord

              Louis is more difficult to find in 1891 as there are so many possibilities. I haven't found one that's a tailor (or similar) yet but I did find a boot finisher. The job he quoted for his father on the marriage cert. So just popping it here in case it proves useful later on - http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/65...l=ReturnRecord
              I read this as LouisE, female, BOX maker ??????

              I've not had any success trying to trace father Solomon (working on the assumption that IF Louis was born in London, as stated in census, then his father too would have been here at some point around 1867.)
              Jay
              Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 20-06-15, 11:47.
              Janet in Yorkshire



              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks Jay, you are right I will remove it as we don't want to confuse the issue later.
                Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Janet, Sadly there was nothing on Louis' headstone apart from his name and the name of his wife and children. And the birth that Val has found is sadly a wrong one as I have previously sent for that certificate and it states the father's name was Wolf Davis. In response again to Janet in Yorkshire, one of Louis' and Esther's son, David Davis (deceased) had in his possession an army discharge document for a Charles Davis (deceased). From that document I managed to find Charles' army records. He was in the Kings own Borderer's and joined on 21 November 1884 when he gave his age as 18 years and 8 months. This would put his birth about February 1866, if he was telling the truth !?? He also gives his father's name as Solomon Davis of 39 Raven Row, Mile End. However, when I have looked at the census records for that address I have never found a Solomon Davis living there. But I am almost 100% sure that Charles is Louis' brother.
                  Mole

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thank you for the additional information. On the army enlistment document, Charles gives his trade as "tailor" - which looks promising, in the light of the documentation for Louis.
                    A pain that there seems to have been another Charles Davis of about the same age who also joined the same reg around the same time and served in the same places - I was hoping that perhaps we can find Charles in barracks in 1891 census.

                    Another bit in the jigsaw, though.

                    Jay
                    Janet in Yorkshire



                    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mole View Post
                      Hi Janet, Sadly there was nothing on Louis' headstone apart from his name and the name of his wife and children. And the birth that Val has found is sadly a wrong one as I have previously sent for that certificate and it states the father's name was Wolf Davis. In response again to Janet in Yorkshire, one of Louis' and Esther's son, David Davis (deceased) had in his possession an army discharge document for a Charles Davis (deceased). From that document I managed to find Charles' army records. He was in the Kings own Borderer's and joined on 21 November 1884 when he gave his age as 18 years and 8 months. This would put his birth about February 1866, if he was telling the truth !?? He also gives his father's name as Solomon Davis of 39 Raven Row, Mile End. However, when I have looked at the census records for that address I have never found a Solomon Davis living there. But I am almost 100% sure that Charles is Louis' brother.
                      Mole


                      Hi Mole & welcome to FTF. Hi everyone ;)

                      The father of Louis Davis was called Solomon Davis on Louis' MC, but I'm thinking that his name could have been originally David Solomon, or Solomon David. A clue to the surname's origins may be hinted at on the gravestone. "Esther daughter of Zelig, widow of Yehuda son of David".

                      So I'm thinking that the surname of Davis may have come from 'son of David'. In which case, Louis Davis's father could call himself Solomon or David on his children's birth certs or on censuses. Also need to look for the variations of Davis/Davies & possibly Davidson/Davidvitch (son of David). Louis Davis could use his Hebrew name of Yehuda or the Yiddish interpretation, Aryé.

                      I've been looking at censuses for brothers Louis & Charles Davis born 1865-1869. There is a family in Middlesex that could be a long shot, but father's name is Elias Davis from Hungary. Mother Elizabeth from Holland, which doesn't fit with info of Russian origins, but 'Russia' lol! What's interesting is that this family have another older brother named David b: 1861 in Holland & Louis Davis had a son named David.

                      This Louis & Charles Davis are both born in Northumberland, not London, but brother Benjamin is born in Middlesex. It may be that their earliest memories are of London, so they thought they were born there. It's early days & I think it's worth keeping an open mind.


                      One thing is for sure. If the members of FTF can't give you a leg-up over this brick wall then nobody can!

                      Wal'
                      Last edited by Wallaby; 20-06-15, 16:03.
                      We should never forget them,
                      Because we would not be here today, but for them.
                      We should be proud, reflect, respect and always remember them.
                      Because we all have them…
                      Them… were our Ancestors.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Mole, do you know when Charles died ?
                        The family you've found & shared info re; Charles, are they descendants of his ? It would help if we could find his birth to see what his father called himself on Charle's BC.

                        Wal'
                        We should never forget them,
                        Because we would not be here today, but for them.
                        We should be proud, reflect, respect and always remember them.
                        Because we all have them…
                        Them… were our Ancestors.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
                          There are some naturalisation records at the National Archives - have you investigated these at all?
                          The official archive of the UK government. Our vision is to lead and transform information management, guarantee the survival of today's information for tomorrow and bring history to life for everyone.


                          Jay


                          Just been looking at these nat records you gave the link to, Jay. They're so typical of the name-changing with Jewish research - Lipman Dawidowicz (or known as Louis Davis).



                          Off topic: Also read your blogs earlier. What good luck you've had to have them read by two different descendants of the families you're searching! Bet you were on cloud 9!

                          Wal'
                          We should never forget them,
                          Because we would not be here today, but for them.
                          We should be proud, reflect, respect and always remember them.
                          Because we all have them…
                          Them… were our Ancestors.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Are the marriage witness names any help?
                            Jackie

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Wallaby View Post
                              I've been looking at censuses for brothers Louis & Charles Davis born 1865-1869. There is a family in Middlesex that could be a long shot, but father's name is Elias Davis from Hungary. Mother Elizabeth from Holland, which doesn't fit with info of Russian origins, but 'Russia' lol! What's interesting is that this family have another older brother named David b: 1861 in Holland & Louis Davis had a son named David.

                              This Louis & Charles Davis are both born in Northumberland, not London, but brother Benjamin is born in Middlesex. It may be that their earliest memories are of London, so they thought they were born there. It's early days & I think it's worth keeping an open mind.


                              One thing is for sure. If the members of FTF can't give you a leg-up over this brick wall then nobody can!

                              Wal'
                              I was looking at that family earlier and wondering too Wal.

                              Mind you, I have tried everything. I just tried putting in Charles, father Soloman, brother Louis with no surname. Although there was no Louis in the house I still got side tracked with a family named Abraham because they had a son named Charles Lewis Abraham. I couldn't make out the father Soloman's occupation though. It looked like embroiderer though, nothing to do with boots.

                              I wish I had more time tonight because I want to go looking for David since I read your post. We are off to the theatre soon though.
                              Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                There's a little bit here about the regiment, which explains the regimental number of Charles - 1281.



                                I've been trying to find out precisely where the regiment was in early April 1891 when census was taken to see what place of birth was recorded for Charles (he gave Stepney at his enlistment.) I've had no luck though, :(apart from knowing they had come back from overseas duties and were "home" based Feb - Nov 1891.

                                Mole, that parental address may well have been the one given on enlistment, which was between census years - many people were constantly on the move as fortunes went up or down.

                                Jay
                                Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 20-06-15, 17:28.
                                Janet in Yorkshire



                                Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  When did Louis die, please?
                                  The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
                                  Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    This might be completely useless but here goes
                                    I have in my Jewish family a Solomon who calls himself Charles, so I am wondering if Louis's Brother Charles was a Solomon ?? as there is one in 1891 born abt 1861 Poland Russia a Boot Finisher (which is the Fathers occupation) living in King Edward Street Stepney.

                                    Comment


                                    • #20
                                      Wow ! I can't believe what a response I'm having already ! Thanks so much to all who have got their thinking caps on for me. So, answers to the questions you have posed, Louis died on 23/4/1922 at 19 Burslem Street, aged 56 years. I have found from one source that this address was a tobaccionist, so it just goes to prove smoking kills ! lol ! On a serious note it says on his death certificate that a post mortem was carried out but I've never been able to find out if you can obtain copies of such documents. Louis and Esther had 7 children, 6 of which survived, they are as follows: Joseph b.18/1/1897, Rebecca b.24/1/1898, Elijah b.2/1/1900, David b.17/3/1901, Zalig b.28/8/1902 (he died age 2 years), Nathan b.11/8/1906 and Solomon b.30/12/1908 all now deceased. It was in the possession of Louis' son David that the discharge document for Charles Davis was found when his family were clearing his things out after he had died. Until this point nobody even knew there was a Charles Davis ! And I can't find any trace of him after he leaves the army on 13/11/1896. I did find on Ancestry's immigration records a Louis Davis, profession machinist, age 34 years returning from New York to Liverpool on the "Servia" on 14th October 1899, so the age and profession fit, so I wonder whether he has family in the USA ?

                                      Thanks again for all the help,

                                      Mole

                                      Comment

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