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Does it sound or look likely that my family has Jewish ancestry?

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  • Does it sound or look likely that my family has Jewish ancestry?

    When discussing my surname with my mother, my mother said it meant flower (Bloom). I said 'that's a Hebrew surname.. isn't it?'' she said yes and said people in Germany have that surname but, it's spelled with a 'u'. Later on in the day, I messaged my mother and asked her what 'ashkenazic' meant. She said she didn't know and asked me why I asked her. I told her 'well, according to some research, this family may have ashkenazic roots, or origins'. She replied with 'what, you mean this family?' and I said yes. My mother texted back 'is it Jewish'.


    I could've been dreaming but I swear my mother's dad (surname Bloom comes from him) was discussing his father, or grandfather long ago, and when he mimicked his accent it sounded Jewish. I may have recalled him saying something like 'he was a Jew' or something to that liking. I always get people say I and my mother look of totally Jewish descent and they say the same about my cousin and even more distant relatives. My family also lives in the same town that this Jewish family by the same surname settled. The 'Bloom' family with the meaning 'flower', according to houseofnames, is the Jewish one. It can be English or Irish too, apparently, and those families live in the UK too, but their surnames have a different meaning.


    My mother and grandparents are gone now and I found it impossible to trace my grandfather's ancestry, no matter what site I go on, the family trees are simply not there.
    Some family pics




    Relative.. ? (surname Blum) his smile is exactly the same as my cousin's. http://i59.tinypic.com/9v8mmg.png
    my cousin http://i60.tinypic.com/vg6avm.png http://i61.tinypic.com/dgrk77.png
    Relative with what my mother calls the 'family nose'... my uncle looks similar, and I and my mother have the exact same nose shape! http://i58.tinypic.com/6r0neo.png
    Young cousin http://i62.tinypic.com/20iw1so.png + http://i60.tinypic.com/2e1zsb4.png
    Other cousin http://i62.tinypic.com/28s63rb.png
    Me: (old picture from 5 years ago. I look pretty much a carbon copy of my mother and she had natural hair like that.) http://i62.tinypic.com/14nloq9.png

  • #2
    Debra

    Welcome to FTF.

    Your name alone tells me you have Jewish ancestry! Don't take too much notice of what House of Names says, they are not exactly wrong but their name meanings are not researched in any academic way.

    If you wish to give us your grandfather's name we can have a search. We are quite good on here at uncovering Jewish roots - Jewish research can be very difficult. Many Jewish people have very successfully hidden their origins, for sad and obvious reasons. Many others anglicised their names so that they did not sound so obviously Jewish (or in some cases, not obviously German).

    OC

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    • #3
      Meant to say - the name was probably Blum/Blume which was in itself a shortened version of Blumenthal or Blumenwald.

      Curious that your mum should give you such a Jewish first name when she didn't know of her Jewish origins.

      OC

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      • #4
        I see you have put an identical question on another forum. A good way forward (I mean backwards!) would be to research your grandfather (death, marriage, birth certificates) and take it from there.

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        • #5
          OC, what about the name Rose, my great great grandfather was called Richard James Barton Rose, he was the son of Thomas Rose (b.1800, Croydon) and Rebecca Barton (b.1803), that's as far back as I can get. I often wondered if my 3rd great grandfather may have been called Rosen or Rosenberg at one point and changed it, any ideas on how to find out?

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          • #6
            My Guttentags called themselves Rose.

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            • #7
              So could be a problem finding out if my Rose's are Jewish then as I don't know if they had another name different from that.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by PDennis View Post
                OC, what about the name Rose, my great great grandfather was called Richard James Barton Rose, he was the son of Thomas Rose (b.1800, Croydon) and Rebecca Barton (b.1803), that's as far back as I can get. I often wondered if my 3rd great grandfather may have been called Rosen or Rosenberg at one point and changed it, any ideas on how to find out?
                There are not that many surviving Jewish records in England from before civil registration, but if you google for them, there are a few free online databases.

                Instinct says there's a much more plausible explanation than a name change for why you can't get back further though. The marriage of Thomas Rose and Rebecca Barton took place at St Mary, Lambeth on 29 Jan 1815, so I'd re-evaluate those years of birth. Note also that it is an Anglican church and all of the children were baptised CofE.
                Rick

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                • #9
                  PDennis

                  I agree with Rick, it is unlikely on the face of it that your Rose family was Jewish, or if they were, they had abandoned their religion by 1800. If they were Jewish it will be almost impossible to trace them before 1800.

                  However.........many Jewish families outwardly practised C of E and privately carried on their Hebrew religion. My late MIL was Jewish but she married in the C of E, had her son baptised in the C of E and did not practice kosher. I was astonished when she died to learn that she had also regularly attended synagogue and in fact had a Jewish burial.

                  OC

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                  • #10
                    Hi Debra,

                    I hope you come back to this message as we have had lots of Jewish research threads in recent times, look at Hospital Records with many parts to it and the Book is on sale too check out Wallaby's thread on the For Sale and wanted threads at the bottom of the page to see her inspiring book for sale.
                    I have a friend who was born in S Africa and shares your Surname, she is not sure of her Fathers origin but has not done the trace/search.


                    Edna

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                    • #11
                      I can't afford a DNA test right now (I'm in debt from college)
                      And, I tried looking up my grandfather's family history but I cannot trace beyond him. No matter where I go it's a dead end. I can't ask him because he's gone.


                      So really this is a guessing game, I'm just wondering how likely it is based on what my mother said and the pictures.


                      My other relatives look 100% English but some of those traits in the pictures pop up here and there on my mother's side of the family. Those traits are most noticeable in the pictures of the relatives I posted photos of.


                      My mother and one of my uncles are dark skinned all year round, and had what they called a 'beak' nose. Sort of like a Syrid nose, that was 'large'. I'm also darker skinned even in the winter. My mother was actually brown, though my grandfather looked light skinned. When I look at myself I almost see some kind of Semitic features there.


                      The problem with tracing is that there is also families of 100% English and Irish origin with the surname, unrelated to each other, and they live in England also. Though according to a person who researched the surname, he said the Bloom families near Manchester were crypto-Jewish, and my family lives very close to there and there were people with Hebrew names like Esau and Hezekiah with my surname living in the same town my family lives. I also met a man with my surname in my town and he had the black hair, short head, and brown skin also.


                      My mother implied she was well implied that Jewish was an ethnicity, rather than a religion.

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                      • #12
                        A thought - you mention that you can't find his tree and your "grandfather's family history". No matter what the adverts say, you are unlikely to find the "tree" ready done and even if you do, you still need to search the public records to find out if it is the correct one.

                        Have you got any certificates yet as suggested earlier - especially your grandfather's?

                        Whatever your ethnic background, you still need to build up the tree yourself, twig by twig, certificate by certificate, census reference by census reference. It gets harder when your research takes you out of the UK, but you still need to find the records to be sure.

                        It sounds as though you have done Step 1, but this page will help you as well in the process: http://www.familytreeforum.com/conte...etting-Started

                        Caroline
                        Caroline's Family History Pages
                        Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

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                        • #13
                          I agree with the others, you have to do the search the traditional way by getting certificates. Other people's trees are unreliable and if your grandfather changed or shortened his name you won't know who to look for anyway.

                          Yes, I personally think you are Jewish, given your name and your appearance - but you could just as equally have middle eauropean/middle eastern ancestry, going on appearance alone. Unless you get certificates starting with your grandfather then we are all just playing a guessing game and you will be no nearer the truth than before. Give us his name and some dates, places etc and let us see what we can find for you.

                          OC

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                          • #14
                            People always think my dads side were Jewish - all dark haired, dark skinned and with the jewish noses (sadly I have it too) but I have never found a Jewish connection - I used to think the name, Cheal must be a subtley changed jewish name but I found the whole bunch of them used to live in Lincoln centuries ago and moved apparently en masse down to Sussex - so I have never found a connection.

                            My old friend in teenage years was called Bloom. She was small, blonde and blue eyed
                            Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 09-05-15, 13:36.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                              I agree with the others, you have to do the search the traditional way by getting certificates. Other people's trees are unreliable and if your grandfather changed or shortened his name you won't know who to look for anyway.

                              Yes, I personally think you are Jewish, given your name and your appearance - but you could just as equally have middle eauropean/middle eastern ancestry, going on appearance alone. Unless you get certificates starting with your grandfather then we are all just playing a guessing game and you will be no nearer the truth than before. Give us his name and some dates, places etc and let us see what we can find for you.

                              OC
                              Does that apply to my picture or my relatives also?
                              And, my father is Southern European and he doesn't look Middle Eastern, so any Middle Eastern ancestry would be coming from my mother's side. (Which includes those relatives, also, since my dad's relatives look like generic Europeans).

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                              • #16
                                Debra

                                Unless you do some proper research you will never know! Guessing doesn't work in family history.

                                OC

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                                • #17
                                  I completely agree with OC. You won't find many on here who would recommend guessing ethnicity from photographs or looking for ready-made answers in published trees. Work backwards, research in the records and document the sources as you go. If you need help with that, then please ask, but we would need something to go on such as your grandfather's name.
                                  Rick

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by DebraBloom View Post
                                    Does that apply to my picture or my relatives also?
                                    And, my father is Southern European and he doesn't look Middle Eastern, so any Middle Eastern ancestry would be coming from my mother's side. (Which includes those relatives, also, since my dad's relatives look like generic Europeans).
                                    But that is a guestimate - without documentary evidence, you cannot KNOW As other forum members have said, only systematic research, going back one generation at a time, will enable you to establish your ancestors and your pedigree.
                                    And for what it's worth, the marriage was in the Georgian/Hanoverian period, so your predecessors could well have come over to England. However, not all German (or other European) immigrants of that era were of Jewish descent. You need to research your specific family members.

                                    Jay
                                    Janet in Yorkshire



                                    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                                    • #19
                                      Debra -
                                      The basics are always a good place to start: with a good family tree. Using the registration system and census, you will probably succeed in getting back to 1837 - if your ancestors didn't immigrate during that time, of course. If they did, Ancestry now has UK naturalization records online.

                                      Sorry, missed that a page two had started. Perhaps you could post what you know about your grandfather? Many here are great at finding records not previously discovered.

                                      And - <broken record> - consider genetic genealogy. Azhkenazi heritage usually has many connections.


                                      Yes, it's not cheap. familytreeDNA.com is probably the least expensive way to test in the UK. You might see if there's an interest group (project) that will subsidize your test - and wait for a sale.
                                      sarah
                                      Last edited by PhotoFamily; 10-05-15, 16:12.

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                                      • #20
                                        The criteria for being Jewish is that if your mother was Jewish, then you are also Jewish.

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