New Babies Birth Cert Mothers place of Birth

[Guest]

As some of you will know the new babies birth cert is printed in todays paper what interested me is it says Mothers place of Birth ? is this new

[AntonyM]

Parent's place of birth has been included for quite a while - 1969 I think.

[Olde Crone Holden]

What surprised me was:

the scruffy writing! My handwriting is better than that. I thought all certs were typed now.

Also - I was surprised to see "Princess" on the cert as I thought honorifics and titles were not included on birth certs but perhaps I have that wrong?

Perish the thought but.......this couldn't be a FAKE, could it, LOL. I mean, why would the Royal family allow a copy of the BC to be published? (And I thought THAT was illegal too!)

OC

[Guest]

ooh yes OC good thinking and is it my eyes or did william sign just William and no surname ? Antony I must look at my Sons then.

[AntonyM]

Duplicate deleted

[AntonyM]

To be absolutely accurate - what the BBC have published isn't a birth certificate, it is the original register entry of birth ( which no-one outside the registration service would ever normally see once it has been completed and signed).

Modern registrations are done on computer and printed - however, when the computer system isn't available for any reason then hand writing one is perfectly normal. In this case, like that of Prince George, I expect the registrar travelled to Kensington Palace rather than insist one of the parents made an appointment at the registration office ( the royal family do get some privileges !).

Titles can be included, if the registrar agrees. William can sign in any way he likes (whether he uses a surname or not).

With regard to publication - all BMD certificates (certified copies of a register entry) are public documents and copies can be bought by anyone - it is just easier for them to publish it for everyone to see and get it over with. When the registrar returned to their office, the details will have been transferred to the computer system and anyone applying for a copy in future will get a printed version.

[Guest]

yes you are right they did go to Kensington Palace rather than them go to the Registrar office.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Antony

We have always been told that it is against the law to publish a copy of a birth certificate without the express permission of the GRO and that is why we cannot receive certificates by email etc.

Also - quite surprised the Registrar doesn't have a laptop on which he can register bmds in this hi-tech age!

OC

[AntonyM]

Antony

We have always been told that it is against the law to publish a copy of a birth certificate without the express permission of the GRO and that is why we cannot receive certificates by email etc.

Also - quite surprised the Registrar doesn't have a laptop on which he can register bmds in this hi-tech age!

OC

OC - As I mentioned, what has been published is not a birth certificate or a GRO document, it is an original birth register entry, so not quite the same thing. But in any case GRO guidance allows copying and publishing of certificates (including on the internet), and always has, subject to some general rules about protecting living individuals information and not using a copy to prove identity etc. - you can read the latest notes here.

The reason they don't send them by email is that they are only currently produced as certified legal documents which therefore have to be on the correct form, with it's watermarking and security features etc. The recent change in legislation to allow non certified copies to be produced should change that once implemented.

The document in question is in the custody of the Superintendent Registrar of Westminster who will have made the decision to publish, no doubt with the parents permission and after consultation with GRO, probably to prevent their registration office staff being inundated with requests for copy certificates from all over the world.

Re the laptop - Yes they could, but for something like this it is really is much more straightforward (and traditional) just to use a simple blank form and a pen. It is much less of a logistical problem than taking a laptop, setting up a secure network connection, having a suitable printer, and all the pre-printed forms just for a one off registration that probably only took 5 minutes to do. Technology doesn't always make things easier or quicker !

I do agree the handwriting could have been a little better though .....although mine wouldn't have been that good either in the circumstances probably.

Antony (ex Deputy Registrar)

[webwiz]

It is common to confuse the terms 'register' and 'certificate'. In the Daily Telegraph it referred to the document as the certificate. The DT also says that after registering George's birth she received 'death threats and on-line abuse' about her messy handwriting. IMHO it's not that bad!

Antony, is the register a bound volume, or just loose sheets - when it's not a computer file?

[AntonyM]

Whether a computer is used to create it or not, the paper register page, and which is signed using a fountain pen by the informant and the registrar is the original and legal record of a birth/death. The individual register pages are then put into a binder/register (births registers are dark red, deaths are black) in batches of 300 and locked away in the storage vault. The computer files created during the process are really a secondary system used for creating the register page, producing certificates, and sending returns to GRO.

Marriage registers are still pre-printed books, completed by hand during the marriage ceremony.

[webwiz]

Thanks Antony. I suppose the reason they released the original rather than a printed certificate, despite the furore over the hand writing on George's (same registrar) was that a certificate would not have William's signature. The registrar's signature would have been the same albeit signing in a slightly different capacity. Or maybe she just ignored the trolls, which would be good.

(I assume this thread is not subject to the normal 'living person' rule?)

[Olde Crone Holden]

(Webwiz - no, because the information we are discussing is already known to anyone who wants to know and widely available on the internet.)

Thankyou Antony for the explanation - when I saw the word "certificate" in the newspaper, that's what I thought it was, a copy of the certificate rather than a copy of the entry in the register.

Scruffy handwriting - but hardly worth a DEATH THREAT, fgs! What on earth is the matter with people? And when is Princess Charlotte ever going to have to produce her birth cert anyway!

OC

[Anne in Carlisle]

When she goes down the job centre?? LOL
Anne