Ellen Abbott

[Racder38]

Hi, I have searched for my great grandmother for about five years with no luck. Her name was Ellen Abbot on the 1881 census aged 23 born in Little Dawley, Shropshire. Later that year she married my great grandfather Robert Agar. But I cannot find any sign of her prior to that date.

On succeeding census forms she states she was born in Madeley, Ironbridge and Dawley. On her marriage certificate her father is given as James Abbot. Apparently she always told family that she was born in Little Dawley and went into service aged 9 years.

My assumption is that either she was illegitimate and took her stepfathers name when her mother married; or her natural father died and she took stepfathers name. Or even that her employers didn't like the forename she came with and changed it. I have searched for Ellen without a surname and Abbot without a forename plus numerous variatons of 'Abbot' and 'Ellen'.

Anyone have an ideas?

Anne

[Darksecretz]

Hello Anne

do you subscribe to Ancestry at all?

to clarify a few points what was James' occupation please and who were the witness' on the marriage cert please.

presumably you have looked for baptisms in Madeley/Ironbridge and Dawley?

Ellen could be Eleanor/Nellie/Lena

I did find this in 1871:

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/WRYRG10_4697_4699-0362/28514711?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26gss%3dangs-g%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dabb**%26msbdy%3d1858%26msbpn__ftp%3dLittle%2bDawley%252c%2bShropshire%252c%2bEngland%26msbpn%3d1673899%26msbpn_PInfo%3d8-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c5282%257c1673899%257c0%257c%26msfng0%3djames%26msfng0_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3dlg3%26msbdp%3d2%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26h%3d28514711%26db%3duki1871%26indiv%3d1%26ml_rpos%3d7&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

I found it interesting as James seems to be on wife number two and that she [annie] comes from Lancs/Bury [and Ellen is in Manchester as a servant in 1881]

[Anne in Carlisle]

Could be Helen as well, which is always annoying because searches never link Ellen with Helen, starting with a different letter as they do. (Edit to say .... yes, FMP does do that!)

I'm not finding her as described in the first post in 1881. Can someone point me in the right direction please.
Anne

[Anne in Carlisle]

Ah, got her in 1881 with age transcribed as 33 ... grrrr!
Anne

[Racder38]

Ellen Abbott

Ah, got her in 1881 with age transcribed as 33 ... grrrr!
Anne

Yes, Anne, I did a 'grrrr' too when I found that! However it was the first (and only) sign I found of her.

Anne

[Racder38]

Hello

Thanks for getting back to me.

Yes, I am on Ancestry and use Findmypast - also a number of other searchable sites.

The marriage was on 15 September 1881 and the witnesses were: George Edward Robinson and his sister(in-law) Teresa Carter (Francis T on 1881 census) and John Agar brother of the groom.

I have checked baptisms in all those areas as far as I can. Shropshire records seem very sparse. Tried for banns on SoC etc but no luck - as I thought there may be some more info on there.

I have also tried all sorts of variations on her name from Ellen, Helen, Lena and others like - even Mary Ellen etc; and from Abbot to Ablat - even Abay.
Even checked all the Ellens (no surname ) in the Dawley area in 1861 census and followed them forward to 1871. Nothing jumps out and most of the parents are still married.

There is an Ellen Abbott born in Lancashire the same year but I've checked and it's not the one.

I've checked that URL to 1871 census and followed James Abbott back to 1851. Thanks for that.
His occupation is noted as pattern maker and then millwright consistently whereas the James Abbott on the marriage cert is identified as a labourer.

[Racder38]

Thought I would give you an update on my search for Ellen Abbot. I think I have found her!! Eventually.

Three weeks ago I was looking again - playing with the phonics and had a 'light bulb' moment And there she was.

An Elizabeth Taylor (father John) married Evan Havard in 1847. In the 1851 census, she had a wee daughter Ann.

Evan died and Elizabeth is shown as a widow in the Little Dawley 1861 census under Havvard. She has two daughters - Ann aged 10 and Ellen aged 4.

Elizabeth, under the surname Abbot, and with a father John Taylor, then married a James Evans in September of that year - 1861.

In the 1871 census her daughter Ann aged 20 is now married. I found her marriage to William Rodgers and her surname is given as ABBERT. Obviously over the years the name has morphed from Havart/d to Abbert/Abbot due to mis-hearing of dialects.

I obtained Ellen's birth certificate to confirm. She was born in Little Dawley to Evan Havart and Elizabeth.

I am a bit annoyed with myself as I had looked at that Havvard name months ago and tried to follow it after 1861 and couldn't find it.

I still have to work out where Ellen was in 1871. There is an Ellen Evans aged 14 in Madeley (step father's surname?).

Do you think I have found her?