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  • ernest j leslie 1863

    HI, i have hit a total brickwall with the research on ernest john leslie about 1863, i can find his wife alice and children in 1901/1911 census for dublin, but NOTHING on him, not in any of the said census records, where is he !!!, why cant i trace him !!!,his wife alice born 1865 dublin, his son earnest born 1891,his daughter eileen born 1896 dublin,.... all i know is his daughter married william j baverstock, they married feb 1922 in INDIA, is he a sailor, civil servant, how did his daughter get to india with him to get married !!!, i have tried FMP, FAMILY SEARCH ECT, but me i cant find antyhing, i am sure that he is NOT irish only his wife is irish !!!, can anyone please start me off on the ernest john leslie line, THANKYOU
    my name is mark and for the last three years i have been doing 4 family tree"s, tree 1 is PAGDEN my mothers line, the pagdens(pagdin) start life in gainsbrough, lincs, tree 2 is SPALDING my fathers line , the spaldings also start life in BURGH LE MARSH, lincs, these two familys , my immediate line i have as you see made into two tree"s for research purposes... tree 3 is my family tree which as normal is PAGDEN(PAGDIN)/SPALDING ,

  • #2
    First thing would be to establish where/when Ernest & Alice married ?

    Tracing that will be much easier if you have Alice's maiden name (would be shown on any of the childrens birth certificates) ?

    What actual evidence do you have of his existence, where does his birth date of 1863 come from ?
    Last edited by AntonyM; 28-03-15, 14:45.
    Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
    Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

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    • #3
      i have the marriage of his daughter eilleen, where he is listed as father of bride, i know that in 1901/1911 his wife alice and children are living in dublin, births in dublin, but never is he mentioned in the census, i cannot find a marriage for him and alice, i would have thought that he would have been in one of the two census records at least
      my name is mark and for the last three years i have been doing 4 family tree"s, tree 1 is PAGDEN my mothers line, the pagdens(pagdin) start life in gainsbrough, lincs, tree 2 is SPALDING my fathers line , the spaldings also start life in BURGH LE MARSH, lincs, these two familys , my immediate line i have as you see made into two tree"s for research purposes... tree 3 is my family tree which as normal is PAGDEN(PAGDIN)/SPALDING ,

      Comment


      • #4
        Is this Eileen?
        Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


        I don't know why that frown face is there....lol
        Jacky

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        • #5
          Birth and baptisms for Ernest John Leslie jnr and Eileen Victoria Leslie here: they were both born a year earlier than the dates you give in your first post.
          http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy....=d-511-2-1-017

          http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy....=d-511-2-1-027

          Ernest John Leslie senior's occ is recorded as engineer in both which might account for his census absences. I couldn't find a marriage for him and Alice on this site unfortunately.

          Christine
          Researching:
          HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

          Comment


          • #6
            Hmm - this is interesting - your Alice Leslie (same Prospect Avenue address as in 1901 and 1911 censuses) in Kilmainham Prison in 1908:
            Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


            Christine
            Researching:
            HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
              Hmm - this is interesting - your Alice Leslie (same Prospect Avenue address as in 1901 and 1911 censuses) in Kilmainham Prison in 1908:
              Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


              Christine
              I've had a proper look at this now on FMP Ireland's Irish Prison records. It was actually Ernest junior who was in prison - albeit briefly - and Alice recorded as his mother/NOK. It looks like he was probably remanded in custody and then released a few days later as he was acquitted by a jury.
              Christine
              Researching:
              HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

              Comment


              • #8
                Not having any luck with Ernest senior, but are you aware of Ernest jnr's WW1 service in the Royal Irish Rifles? It includes his wife/marriage details:


                Christine
                Researching:
                HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                Comment


                • #9
                  thankyou ALL , yes correct to those who found the prison sentence, also to the WW1 record for junior ernest , eilleen did marry BANGALOR ,INDIA 1922, i appreciate all that you all have found, the ernest senior is proving elusive so far, his family line is the one i am after, i am sure ernest senior for some reason does not pop up in a census for what reason !!! , if i find him i should be able to start a trace on his family line ( i hope).......... thankyou
                  my name is mark and for the last three years i have been doing 4 family tree"s, tree 1 is PAGDEN my mothers line, the pagdens(pagdin) start life in gainsbrough, lincs, tree 2 is SPALDING my fathers line , the spaldings also start life in BURGH LE MARSH, lincs, these two familys , my immediate line i have as you see made into two tree"s for research purposes... tree 3 is my family tree which as normal is PAGDEN(PAGDIN)/SPALDING ,

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mark anthony View Post
                    thankyou ALL , yes correct to those who found the prison sentence, also to the WW1 record for junior ernest , eilleen did marry BANGALOR ,INDIA 1922, i appreciate all that you all have found, the ernest senior is proving elusive so far, his family line is the one i am after, i am sure ernest senior for some reason does not pop up in a census for what reason !!! , if i find him i should be able to start a trace on his family line ( i hope).......... thankyou
                    You need to purchase a birth certificate for one of the children to get Alice's maiden name so you stand a better chance of finding the marriage. I expect it took place in Dublin but it is clearly not coming up on a search of his name.

                    You may need to trace more on Alice to see if that gives any clues as to her movements and where she might have been when they married if it doesn't come up in Dublin records.

                    Unless he was born in UK there are no other census records to help you.

                    I see on ScotlandsPeople that there are several Ernest Leslie births so it may be a Scottish name.

                    I see on the Indian marriage record for Eileen that her father's name is noted as Stuart John Leslie.

                    Margaret
                    Last edited by margaretmarch; 29-03-15, 14:18.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Looking at the 1911 census Alice says she has been married 23 years so that makes it 1888 or thereabouts so at least a time frame to look at.

                      Do you know when/where Alice died - the death certificate should give her maiden name with any luck.

                      Margaret

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Could this be Alice's death http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...iv=1&ml_rpos=1

                        Margaret

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post

                          I see on the Indian marriage record for Eileen that her father's name is noted as Stuart John Leslie.

                          Margaret
                          Margaret,
                          I noticed that too via the Familysearch link earlier in the thread but have looked at the original image on Findmypast - her father's name is definitely Ernest John Leslie and transcribed as such on FMP. The familysearch transcription is pretty dire for the groom's name too!

                          Christine
                          Researching:
                          HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            yes thankyou, i have seen two variations of the marriage of his daughter on one it says stuart and on the other it says ernest, so i am thinking this an error in transcribing as the living family members from the baverstocks (the family she married into) insist he was called ERNEST, on each marriage cert the name baverstock is also transcribed wrong as bauerstock
                            my name is mark and for the last three years i have been doing 4 family tree"s, tree 1 is PAGDEN my mothers line, the pagdens(pagdin) start life in gainsbrough, lincs, tree 2 is SPALDING my fathers line , the spaldings also start life in BURGH LE MARSH, lincs, these two familys , my immediate line i have as you see made into two tree"s for research purposes... tree 3 is my family tree which as normal is PAGDEN(PAGDIN)/SPALDING ,

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              just an update, i am no proffesional but im begining to think that ernest john maybe wrong but also correct for the reasons that follow 1 i can find no records for ernest john but there are records for john ernest , in travel, census, marriage ect, 2 i know he travelled to india(or for some reason he was in india) for his daughter eileens wedding, there is a travel record( 2 in total) for john ernest to india(FMP), i know he was an engineer(is this why he is in india) by occupation, 3 according to surname origins the surname LESLIE is scottish, so could be that is where his origins lie !!!!!, 4 i know alice died around 1922 before the daughters marriage in india as it says on the marriage that ernest john or john ernest is widowed, 5 maybe him and alice never actually married, 6 why is the daughter eileen in india to get married unless she was resident/working in india with her father!!!!, as her husband william is serving in the forces in india (rank quartermaster seargent) so surely they must have met and married in india because thats were they were residing for whatever reasons. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! signed .. still confused
                              my name is mark and for the last three years i have been doing 4 family tree"s, tree 1 is PAGDEN my mothers line, the pagdens(pagdin) start life in gainsbrough, lincs, tree 2 is SPALDING my fathers line , the spaldings also start life in BURGH LE MARSH, lincs, these two familys , my immediate line i have as you see made into two tree"s for research purposes... tree 3 is my family tree which as normal is PAGDEN(PAGDIN)/SPALDING ,

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by mark anthony View Post
                                just an update, i am no proffesional but im begining to think that ernest john maybe wrong but also correct for the reasons that follow 1 i can find no records for ernest john but there are records for john ernest , in travel, census, marriage ect, 2 i know he travelled to india(or for some reason he was in india) for his daughter eileens wedding, there is a travel record( 2 in total) for john ernest to india(FMP), i know he was an engineer(is this why he is in india) by occupation, 3 according to surname origins the surname LESLIE is scottish, so could be that is where his origins lie !!!!!, 4 i know alice died around 1922 before the daughters marriage in india as it says on the marriage that ernest john or john ernest is widowed, 5 maybe him and alice never actually married, 6 why is the daughter eileen in india to get married unless she was resident/working in india with her father!!!!, as her husband william is serving in the forces in india (rank quartermaster seargent) so surely they must have met and married in india because thats were they were residing for whatever reasons. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! signed .. still confused
                                Certainly the reversal of first names is not unusual so if you have found records that seem to match with that reversal then I would go with them until I was proved otherwise.

                                Is it possible Alice and JE/EJ married in India? Maybe he was born there?

                                Margaret

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Hello Mark

                                  I am not sure why you think that Ernest John was in India at the time of Eileen's marriage and is recorded as a Widower. I note that the FMP image shows her husband- to- be as a Widower. Do you have another mc with the signature of Ernest John.

                                  Create an account for free with Findmypast to discover your family history and build a family tree. Search birth records, census data, death records and more.


                                  I have a relative who too married in India in 1916. She died there also. She married a Corporal in the Army I have often wondered how she came to be out there - whether she had some sort of employment - but I am sure that her father never left the home town from where he was born.

                                  I note that on the son's Army papers, he gives his mother Alice Leslie as next of kin, later adding his wife. This seems unusual unless of course his father Ernest John Leslie was deceased at the time or the parents never married.

                                  Not much help I am afraid in tracking down your Ernest John Leslie but maybe as has been said the dc of Alice may throw up some clues.

                                  Vera
                                  Last edited by vera2013; 05-04-15, 00:56.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Or maybe not

                                    Even today, Irish death records do not usually include a maiden name for married women or date of birth for the deceased




                                    Vera
                                    Last edited by vera2013; 05-04-15, 01:30.

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                                    • #19
                                      I noticed on the baptism record that Karamazov put up on post 5, that the surname for Ernest John bap 1890 had been changed from Lesware to Leslie

                                      There is this marriage in Dublin of an Ernest John Lesware in 1885 of 164 Capel Street to Emily Margaret Fisher. Ernest John is an Engineer. Wonder if there is any connection. Perhaps something for the back burner. That Capel Street rings a bell





                                      Vera
                                      Last edited by vera2013; 05-04-15, 13:21.

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                                      • #20
                                        Ernest Lesware can be found on the Irish 1901 and 1911 census with wife Emily. They had been married for 25 years and were childless.



                                        If you had a signature for Ernest John from Eileen Victoria's marriage cert, you could compare with the signatures of the Ernest Lesware m to Emily and the 1911 census.

                                        Maybe he was having children with Alice but unable to marry.



                                        Vera

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