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  • Can anyone read this?

    Baptism entry, I can't read the word in the margin. Thanks

    Annie Mary Jones Baptism 1867.jpg
    Co-ordinator for PoW project Southern Region 08
    Researching:- Wieland, Habbes, Saettele, Bowinkelmann, Freckenhauser, Dilger in Germany
    Kincaid, Warner, Hitchman, Collie, Curtis, Pocock, Stanley, Nixey, McDonald in London, Berks, Bucks, Oxon and West Midlands
    Drake, Beals, Pritchard in Kent
    Devine in Ireland

  • #2
    Maybe "received" - as in, received into the church?

    Comment


    • #3
      In view of the dark vertical lines to the right of the "unreadable" word and the dark vertical lines at the end of the entry, I can't help wondering if the "unreadable" relates to this entry at all.
      I can't read it either!

      Sue

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for trying.

        I am trying to get some connection between a birth and the later records for my wife's great grandmother. She is down as Annie on every record from her marriage onwards except for her son's army enrolment where she is Mary Ann.

        I found a birth in the right year and place for Mary Jones (no second name), and I have just received the certificate and the father's name and occupation are correct. I am now trying to get some evidence of the name change and this is the only baptism I can find that even remotely fits, but it is 3 years after her birth.

        The entry reads Feb 17, Annie Mary, William + Anne, Jones, Reed (a parish in Hertfordshire), Labourer. I was hoping for the DOB in the margin (many baptism registers have that, but not this one) but wondered if the word that is there would give a clue as to the delay in baptism.

        The full story of Annie is in this thread http://www.familytreeforum.com/showt...ng-for-a-Jones
        Co-ordinator for PoW project Southern Region 08
        Researching:- Wieland, Habbes, Saettele, Bowinkelmann, Freckenhauser, Dilger in Germany
        Kincaid, Warner, Hitchman, Collie, Curtis, Pocock, Stanley, Nixey, McDonald in London, Berks, Bucks, Oxon and West Midlands
        Drake, Beals, Pritchard in Kent
        Devine in Ireland

        Comment


        • #5
          Pete

          I would imagine the explanation is that Annie Mary was privately baptised at birth but that fact was either not recorded or there was some doubt as to who did the baptism and whether it was "valid".

          I believe that there are two forms of baptism ceremony and when there is doubt as to whether someone is already baptised or not then the service is the one for being "received" into the church. This could well be a few years after birth, perhaps when the vicar starts asking questions.

          One of my relatives was privately baptised (by the midwife) at birth - Mary - as she wasn't expected to live. She did and her birth was registered as Emma Mary. She was later received into the church as Mary Emma. Everyone she knew called her Polly!

          OC

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks OC, that could explain it.

            The only discrepancy now is the parish, and the fact that Annie/Mary doesn't appear on any census with her parents.

            The birth is 14 Mar 1864 in reg district of Royston, Cambridgeshire. The address is Whaddon and parents are William Jones, farm labourer and Ann Jones formerly Howard.

            I can only find one marriage that fits 19 Sep 1846 in Reed, Hertfordshire William Jones age 28 and Ann Howard age 17 (from parish registers). I have this couple on the 1861 in Reed with children Sarah (3) and William (1). I am pretty sure this is the couple from the 1846 marriage because of the age difference.

            I have baptisms in Reed for Sarah 3 Oct 1847, and William 5 May 1850.

            I can't find any of them in 1871, except perhaps Mary/Annie at a boarding school in Paddington which is where my wife's great grandmother married.

            Now the discrepancy. Whaddon is about 4 miles north of Royston and Reed about 4 miles south. Why would every event for this family be in Reed, but a single birth in Whaddon then a baptism back in Reed?
            Co-ordinator for PoW project Southern Region 08
            Researching:- Wieland, Habbes, Saettele, Bowinkelmann, Freckenhauser, Dilger in Germany
            Kincaid, Warner, Hitchman, Collie, Curtis, Pocock, Stanley, Nixey, McDonald in London, Berks, Bucks, Oxon and West Midlands
            Drake, Beals, Pritchard in Kent
            Devine in Ireland

            Comment


            • #7
              At the risk of sounding silly (!) you are born where you are born, not where you OUGHT to be born, as it were. Perhaps mum was visiting Whaddon and went into labour (early? that would also add weight to a private baptism).

              OC

              Comment


              • #8
                All my grandfathers census entries said born Holyhead, yet his baptism was at Llanfaelog where the parents were from, it took a long time to sort that one out but eventually all the pieces clicked together.

                Edna

                Comment


                • #9
                  I understand what you are saying OC, but I have had a similar situation with another branch where a single birth among many events was displaced by a few miles. I was convinced that it was just a birth that happened whilst visiting, but as more records became available I realised I had the wrong person and the birth had occurred in the same village as the rest of the family. It turned out that the GRO index was wrong and the name had been mis-transcribed when the index was drawn up so I couldn't find the real birth.

                  There are just too many loose ends with this one for me to go with it. Mary at birth, Annie Mary at baptism 3 years after birth when siblings were baptised within a couple of months, Annie as an adult on MC, census and DC but Mary Ann on her son's service record. If I had just one census entry where she was with parents or siblings, or her DOB was on her baptism record then I probably could accept it.

                  Unfortunately I think her parents may have died in between her birth or baptism and 1871. I know her father was deceased by the time she married in 1889 but I can't find any likely death, but it could have happened in Hertfordshire or west London where Annie ended up and with the name of William Jones singling out one is virtually impossible.
                  Co-ordinator for PoW project Southern Region 08
                  Researching:- Wieland, Habbes, Saettele, Bowinkelmann, Freckenhauser, Dilger in Germany
                  Kincaid, Warner, Hitchman, Collie, Curtis, Pocock, Stanley, Nixey, McDonald in London, Berks, Bucks, Oxon and West Midlands
                  Drake, Beals, Pritchard in Kent
                  Devine in Ireland

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    To try and get a bit more evidence for Mary/Annie I have just got the BC for William to check mother's maiden name. It is Howard so the girl I have the BC for, Mary, does belong to this family.

                    However there are still a few discrepancies with Mary to clear up; why was she born in Whaddon when the family lived in Reed, why such a big age gap between her and her brother, why the gap between birth and baptism and why the change from Mary to Annie Mary?

                    The family I have in Reed in 1851 (HO107; Piece 1707; Folio 294; Page 13) are as follows:

                    William Jones, Head, Mar, 33, Ag Lab, Herts, Reed
                    Anne Jones, Wife, Mar, 22, Lab Wife, Herts, Reed
                    Sarah Jones, Daur, 3, Herts, Reed
                    William Jones, Son, 1, Herts, Reed

                    I have William's BC for 1st Feb 1850 in Reed.

                    I have the same family still in Reed in 1861 (RG9; Piece 813; Folio 65; Page 8), but Sarah is missing.

                    Mary is born 14 March 1864 Whaddon, and possibly baptised 17 Feb 1867 in Reed.

                    I can't find the family in 1871, except possibly Mary/Annie at some sort of boarding school in Paddington and Sarah as a servant in Kensington. I can't find any definite deaths for William & Anne. William jnr turns up possibly married in Plaistow in 1881

                    Now for a scenario. The age difference between Mary/Annie and her sister Sarah is 16. What if Sarah got pregnant and they shipped her off to friends/relatives in Whaddon until she gave birth? The child was then registered as William and Anne's and later baptised in the family's home parish. Sarah then went to London with her child after her parents died and ended up in service with her child in some sort of home/school.

                    What do you think? Is there any way I could prove/disprove this?
                    Last edited by PeteW1959; 21-02-15, 12:21.
                    Co-ordinator for PoW project Southern Region 08
                    Researching:- Wieland, Habbes, Saettele, Bowinkelmann, Freckenhauser, Dilger in Germany
                    Kincaid, Warner, Hitchman, Collie, Curtis, Pocock, Stanley, Nixey, McDonald in London, Berks, Bucks, Oxon and West Midlands
                    Drake, Beals, Pritchard in Kent
                    Devine in Ireland

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It's a very plausible scenario Pete. I have something very similar in my tree but in my case I was able to prove it because the baptism entry told the truth, the birth certificate told the lie!

                      OC

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