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  • Help with familysearch record sources, please

    Please could someone explain how I find out the origin of the following record:

    Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


    The Gimingham registers have not been filmed and the originals are still retained at the church.
    A transcription of the registers was made and printed and there is a copy at the Norfolk record office.
    Freereg coverage includes Gimingham register entries, taken from the transcription, and also some from the ATs, but I can't pull up a Cole baptism entry for either Mary above, or for apparent sibling John Cole bp there in 1791.
    I've tried to check with the Norfolk BT images on familysearch, but there’s no ATs at all for Gimingham and no BTs for 1789.
    So, where does the familysearch data come from? I was hoping to locate an image to check out the mother’s maiden surname, to see if it could have been Worts.

    Thanks for reading
    Jay
    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

  • #2
    I can't help with where FamilySearch got this record but how sure are you that Gimingham parish church has retained its registers. The Norfolk County Record Office online catalogue shows the registers as having been deposited with them.
    Judith passed away in October 2018

    Comment


    • #3
      Jay

      I can't help with this specific record either but I do know of at least one instance in my own research where "extracted" records had been tinkered with, to include the fictitious baptism of my 2 x GGF, which turned him from illegitimate to legitimate and sent me down the wrong research path for YEARS until I almost accidentally looked at the original record.

      I should point out that it was an extracted record, the extraction compiled many years before there were any standards applied to extractions and it appeared to have been more of an offering than a requested extraction, if that makes sense.

      OC

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for that Judith - I must confess that it's over a decade since I last had a search done and at that time they were still at the church, so my researcher used the transcription held at the record office. Perhaps they have been deposited since?? I couldn't get your link to open :(, but no problem, I am happy to take your word that they are now at the record office. (Actually looking back at my notes, it could have been that the record office were directing people to the printed transcription only, rather than allowing access to anything else.)
        I see the Gimingham bps added to Freereg have been taken from the transcription, rather than from images of the originals. :(

        Jay

        Jay
        Janet in Yorkshire



        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

        Comment


        • #5
          Ah, the link wouldn't open for me either. Probably because I was trying to link to the result of a search.

          If you type Gimingham into the search box on this link it should work. http://nrocat.norfolk.gov.uk/DServe/.../nroparish.htm
          Judith passed away in October 2018

          Comment


          • #6
            OC,
            I know EXACTLY what you mean! Familysearch had become so much more reliable over the last few years and I had begun to set much greater store by it because all those old "offerings" seemed to have disappeared. However, recently I have begun to think that some of the old, rather questionable, data has found its way back into the system.
            The facility including Norfolk parish register images has been absolutely marvellous - just a pity that it doesn't include the three register entries that I need;
            the 1788 marriage of Joseph Cole & Elizabeth WORTS, The 1789bp of the daughter of Joseph Cole & Elizabeth WATERS & 1791 bp of the son of Joseph Cole & Elizabeth XX. I can't think how else to solve the conundrum of Elizabeth Worts being the same woman as my ancestress Elizabeth Waters, wife of Joseph Cole. (I can find no Cole/Waters marriage and have 3 children born 1793 and later in another parish.)

            Jay
            Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 29-01-15, 12:19.
            Janet in Yorkshire



            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

            Comment


            • #7
              from this link (the one you gave):
              Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


              There is this citation:

              Citing this Record

              "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NB91-QBB : accessed 29 January 2015), Joseph Cole in entry for Mary Cole, 19 Jun 1789; citing , reference ; FHL microfilm 894,717.

              Going to FS's catalog and looking up 894,717 you go to this page:
              Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


              Presumably the record is indexed from item #5
              Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


              Without actually looking at the film, it's hard to tell what it is. The title says it's transcribed:
              Parish register transcripts, 1558-1812

              but the description says it's
              'Microfilm of original records at the Norwich Garsett House.
              Baptisms, marriages and burials.'

              Maybe those "original records" are transcriptions?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
                OC,
                just a pity that it doesn't include the three register entries that I need;
                the 1788 marriage of Joseph Cole & Elizabeth WORTS,
                The 1789bp of the daughter of Joseph Cole & Elizabeth WATERS & 1791 bp of the son of Joseph Cole & Elizabeth XX.
                Jay
                The marriage appears in the Archdeacon's transcripts.


                These transcripts for some reason miss the two baptisms. But double check in case I missed them.

                I found this resource suggested here
                Phil
                historyhouse.co.uk
                Essex - family and local history.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks PF - I was thinking along the lines of the source material being transcriptions only :( which doesn't really help with my particular conundrum.

                  The reference to Garsett House isn't helpful either - can't find out what collection would have been held at that location or why. Apart from the Norfolk record office, the only other place I know of in Norwich that has lots of Norfolk data is Kirby Hall, which belongs to the Norwich & Norfolk FHS.

                  Jay
                  Janet in Yorkshire



                  Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'd be pretty confident that w - or - t - s was that particular Curate's attempt to spell Waters, as it is a good phonetic match. I see Elizabeth made her mark so may not have known how to spell her name, and any way back then exact spelling was of little importance to people.
                    Judith passed away in October 2018

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Wow, thanks for that Phil - I was supposed to have looked at both the BTs & the ATs last night, so obviously didn't look properly I did have my specs on too!

                      I still think Worts could have sounded like Waters to a parson in another parish, if he was unfamiliar with that surname. Pity that the alleged bp entry for John had no family name for the mother; my dilemma is how many Joseph Coles with wife Elizabeth were there in that area at that time. One, or two?

                      Jay
                      Janet in Yorkshire



                      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JudithM View Post
                        I'd be pretty confident that w - or - t - s was that particular Curate's attempt to spell Waters, as it is a good phonetic match. I see Elizabeth made her mark so may not have known how to spell her name, and any way back then exact spelling was of little importance to people.
                        Thank you for your input Judith, that's the way I'm thinking - married 1788 and had two children 1789 & 1791 at Gimingham, then moved a few miles down the coast & had Robert & Elizabeth in Happisburgh 1793 & 1795, then a Joseph in East Ruston in 1805. UNLESS I come across a parallel birth, time wise, for a child of Joseph Cole & Elizabeth WORTS. Another nearby village is Bacton - a Mary Cole married there in 1813 and one of the witnesses was Joseph Cole.

                        Jay

                        Jay
                        Janet in Yorkshire



                        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Jay,
                          Indexed wrong - Grimingham with Trunch instead of Gimingham.

                          Kat

                          My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks for that, Kat
                            I've just had a very quick scan through the images and there is a gap from Easter1789 until Easter 1794. - That could well explain why the 2 bps are not on FreeReg (data on there was taken from the transcript & also the ATs.)

                            But doesn't explain how they come to be included in the familysearch database.

                            I'm delighted to be able to access these images, as I have several families in and out of these villages over the decades and so it will be great to read through ALL the pages. I've already just come across the Gimingham marriage of a John Cole of Bacton, who may well have been Joseph's brother, so a fantastic resource for me.

                            Thanks everyone for all the useful input.

                            Jay
                            Janet in Yorkshire



                            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                            Comment

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