When is it legal to amend a dead persons will

[Guest]

Cannot say too much but was quite surprised when somebody told me he had got the solicitor to amend his dead sisters will, I thought that was impossible.

[Guy]

You can change a person’s will by variation after the person's death as long as all beneficiaries who loose out by the changes agree to it.
Cheers
Guy

[Guest]

thanks Guy , I dont like the idea myself ,after all the person knew what she wanted, not much point leaving one then is it ? Can it be worded in such a way that it cannot be changed ?

[JBee]

Yes I've heard of Deed of Variation (not sure if that's the right term.

When my uncle died my deceased mother's share should have gone to my brother and I. We felt our share should go to his surviving brother who he was living with at the time. The solicitor got us to sign to that effect and so it was done

[Guest]

Thanks JBee this lady specifically changed her will for a very good reason she told us about it at the time, so I feel they have let her down by changing it back.

[Guy]

Not really because in essence the beneficiaries are simply accepting their inheritance and redistributing it to benefit a third party.
By this I mean it would be the same result as them accepting the inheritance and giving a proportion of it to someone else.
Though it would be possible to place the estate in a trust, depending on the value of the estate

Cheers
Guy

[Guest]

I understand that Guy but she did not want these 2 to get as much as the others for reasons I agree with.

[Olde Crone Holden]

There was a case here some years ago where an elderly, very rich, spinster died in the house she had been born in and lived all her life. A very nice house indeed, in beautiful grounds. She left the bulk of her estate for the upkeep of the house and grounds "in perpetuity" and stipulated that the house was not to be sold or demolished, but if it had to be demolished for safety reasons in the future, then the land was to be maintained as a garden "for the benefit of all".

Somehow, the will was overturned, the house demolished and the land sold to a property developer and now sports some 20 or so mean little houses. We often speculate as to whether or not they are haunted.

In other words, where money is concerned, there's nearly always a way.

OC

[Guest]

sad though isn't it when what you want does not happen OC, dont see the point of a will then.

[PhotoFamily]

In other words, where money is concerned, there's nearly always a way.
OC

I have distant cousins who left a trust. Their (very valuable) land may be used by the group that they designated, and under certain conditions, may even be sold.

That group got it into their plans to sell off a portion to use in a way not indicated by the trust. They were stopped!

The comment was - "they had a very good lawyer". The last of these cousins died in the early 1900s.

Yes, as my lawyer pointed out - once you turn over the asset, it belongs to someone else, and may be used as they see fit. I think the only way to avoid that is with a trust - but I'm not a lawyer.

[Guest]

hi Photo its very sad that what you want is not carried out, this lady saved hard all her life and now somebody she did not want to benefit is going to.

[PhotoFamily]

It's not just wills/inheritance. I've seen designated moneys/gifts in charitable organizations' books that were re-purposed.

I don't know the details of the trust that kept that property from being sold. I'm just grateful. It's part of the "family farm" that my ancestors moved to in about 1640. It was amazing to see it with very little development.

[Olde Crone Holden]

There's also the situation where Trusts get "forgotten". I know of a case locally where the COUNCIL has taken over a valuable piece of land under squatter's rights. I know who owns that land, or at least who USED to own it. The council has made no effort to trace the descendants. I tried to bring up the matter locally but was blocked at every turn. Still riles me though!

OC

[PhotoFamily]

I'm not sure exactly how the sale of the trust property was stopped. I do know that the trust named several (six?) charitable organizations. If the first one didn't want the benefits or duties, then the next on the list would be asked if they would assume the duties and benefits. I've wondered if that keeps the first one on their toes? The person who told me the story said the lawyer who wrote the trust was very good

[Sue1]

In the 1930s a large piece of land was left to ? by Lady St. Helier (Channel Islands and don't know what the connection was) and ?by her, a large hospital was built to serve the huge social housing in the area - the St. Helier Estate. This is in Carshalton, Surrey. The hospital had 800 beds and was a fantastic place. It had a Renal Unit in the days when they were in their infancy and a scarce commodity i.e. people could go for their dialysis, large premature baby unit etc - there was nothing it didn't have. It even had a house for the Medical Superintendent (before they ceased to exist).
About 10 years or more ago the hospital wards and offices started to fill with social workers, district nurses etc who had offices there. Now the nurses home has been pulled down but suddenly demolition work has stopped.
The nearest other hospitals are Epsom, St. Georges, Tooting and Croydon - none of them particularly close or on a direct bus route.
The land opposite the hospital is a large green strip which is not allowed to be built on - it is part of the hospital land and was bequeathed by the same lady so that patient's looked out on greenery not rooftops. It was later very useful for landing a helicopter in the very early days when this was not often done and no one had helipads.
I worked there for 10 years and we were all informed about the kindness of this good lady and that a hospital would always be on this land ........................ha, ha - there is obviously a way round everything. The building remains (and is in a good state) but the patients and medical staff have gone.
It would appear however that they actually cannot pull the building down - it is not unsafe and the Trust still applies - I strongly suspect Lawyers are working away at overturning this and I don't doubt that they will eventually succeed.
In some ways I can understand an enormous hospital is not a necessity these days (but don't we keep hearing "there are no hospital beds") as people don't stay in hospital as long as they used to nor, indeed, as long as some of them need to because of "care in the community".
This hospital was the donation of someone who saw a great need and did something about it - that need still exists but the local authority want it "gone" - after all, valuable land is very lucrative and the hospital is sitting on a goldmine - it is also sitting on an artesian well - it never had to pay for water.
At least in this case it did serve the community for many years but I still wonder how the wishes of Lady St. Helier were so easily overturned (if they actually were, since it is still standing and in good condition).

If a Will such as the above can be overturned it is not surprising that others can - apparently the wording of her Will/Trust were quite specific. If it was a "Trust" and I am pretty sure that it WAS then the word obviously doesn't mean what I thought it did.

Sue

[Olde Crone Holden]

Sue1

Truro Cty Hall was built by a local bigwig for the use of the community and a Trust was set up to oversee the running of it. At some point, the council took financial responsibility (to a point) but the Hall was allowed to slowly deteriorate. The Hall was in use every single day - meetings, flea markets, craft markets, scouts, brownies, concerts, plays, a wonderful livestock market at Christmas with a nativity of real animals.

Suddenly, in the late 1980s, plans were unveiled for a new theatre on the site of the old City Hall. A public meeting was arranged in the Mayor's parlour, for those few people who it was assumed might object. Over 3000 people turned up! During the course of the meeting the council was challenged to show the deeds of the Hall and guess what, they could not because they had been destroyed in a fire(haha, that convenient fire). A long campaign was waged but we lost, they won and Truro City Hall is now an expensive drain on the rates. Yes, it puts on shows and if you don't mind paying £20 for a ticket, fine....but the Hall is no longer a community hall and the day rent is beyond the reach of anyone except the subsidised. So immoral.

OC

[JBee]

You do hear of people challenging wills if they felt it was wrongly disinheriting someone or someone wasn't going to get their fair share (in their eyes).

Perhaps the main beneficiaries did this or agreed to it.

[Olde Crone Holden]

The whole point of making a will though, is surely that your money goes to who you want it to go to. You do not have to leave your money to relatives if you don't want to UNLESS that relative was partly or wholly financially dependent on you. So, just because you sucked up to Great Aunt Ada for 40 years in the hope of getting the lot doesn't mean you have a leg to stand on if she leaves the lot to the cat's home.

If a will can be varied or challenged just because someone feels aggrieved, then why are we making wills at all?

OC

[Anne in Carlisle]

To put the other side of the story. I know of a man who left most of his estate (over £15,000) to a local cause close to his heart and NOT to his only child, a son. The son challenged the will on the grounds that his father was not of sound enough mind to have made the decision. Witnesses who knew the deceased gave evidence in court as to their knowledge of his intentions and the will was upheld, the money going to the local cause which still enjoys the result to this day.
Anne

[Sue1]

"Truro Cty Hall was built by a local bigwig for the use of the community and a Trust was set up to oversee the running of it. At some point, the council took financial responsibility (to a point) but the Hall was allowed to slowly deteriorate"

Why is it, when a Council gets involved, it appears to sound a death knell. How often do they do things that people would find really useful. Who exactly are they trying to please - someones pockets! Surely a Council is set up for the better good of the Community and to work for that community, who voted them in - the Government wonders why people are apathetic about voting (42% if I remember rightly at the last General election).
I suppose it is true that "you can't please all of the people all of the time - you can only please some of the people some of the time" BUT AT LEAST YOU COULD MAKE A GENUINE PUBLIC SPIRITED EFFORT.
One thing you can be absolutely sure of - once something is in local authority ownership you can be sure it is on a downward spiral - I am sad to say that because it shouldn't be so but have sadly never noticed it to be otherwise.
Sorry OC seem to have run off at the mouth and pinched your soapbox! Basically this post was about overturning Wills.

Sue