Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Adoption query

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Adoption query

    How does an adopted person get proof of ID for a passport etc. If the answer is that they must get a (natural) birth certificate, how did they get ID before 1975 when it was not possible to get natural birth info? Or suppose they were adopted after 1975 but don't have enough information to obtain a birth cert?
    People: Canton, Wiseman, Colthup, Scrace
    Places: Pembrokeshire, Kent.

  • #2
    The certificate issued from the entry in the Adopted Children Register (from 1927 onwards) becomes the equivalent of their "birth" certificate for all legal purposes.
    Last edited by AntonyM; 12-01-15, 19:55.
    Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
    Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

    Comment


    • #3
      Antony

      What you say is legally correct of course - but we have one member on here who has been asked for his original birth cert, rather than an adoption cert, in order to be considered for a job. When he refused to supply birth cert, the job offer was withdrawn. Illegal, yes, but try fighting it.......

      I have heard of other such incidents.

      OC

      Comment


      • #4
        I assume that things have changed, for the worse by the sound of it..

        My wife was adopted in 1941 and when she went to University in 1960 she was asked for her birth certificate, which she obtained from the GRO Somerset House. This was a short certificate in her adopted name with no indication that she had been adopted and as an official Certficate of Birth was never questioned.

        David

        Comment


        • #5
          David

          Well, yes, things HAVE changed in the last 55 years, lol!

          A short birth cert is no longer accepted as ID and in fact a long certificate isn't either - it says clearly on the bottom "this certificate is not proof of identity". Normally an prospective employer would require other proofs of ID, but an adoption certificate of birth shouldn't flag up special requirements to prove birth identity.

          Our member was put for adoption at birth and legally adopted at five months. What could he POSSIBLY have done before that which might prevent him from being considered for a job? The circumstances of his adoption were particularly distressing and he felt nothing positive about his birth parents. As far as he was concerned, his adoptive parents were his real parents and anything else was nothing to do with him.

          The law is clear. The interpretation and administration of the law by various employers and even government officials is not.

          OC

          Comment


          • #6
            The older Certificate for adopted people (I had one) was a Certificate of Adoption - there was no doubt and there was no secret about it. The shortened certificate said none of this but was very short on details i.e. no parents etc but it did give place of birth.
            The long version had a statement on it that it was an offence to regard this person to be not one of the family or who the certificate said they were ...............or similar wording (in very small print). I can no longer find mine and have a modern one now which does not say this. When I first started working (1956) I used the shortened version and no questions were asked. I never had a problem getting a passport and I presume I used the long version for this.
            I was once asked to produce both certificates by a solicitor who had contacted me - he wanted to make sure I was not entitled to anything when my natural mother died.

            I fail to see why there should be a problem with getting a passport (they are issued by a government department after all) using an adopted person certificate - does the right hand not know what the left is doing in Government Departments?

            Sue
            Last edited by Sue1; 13-01-15, 13:59.

            Comment


            • #7
              I have a long version of an Adoption certificate in front of me (dated 1948) for a case I am working on - there is a long section of small print detailing various Acts under which it is issued etc. but which finishes by saying:

              " ....such certified copy shall also be received as evidence of the date of birth of the adopted child to which the same relates in all aspects as though the same were a Certified Copy of an Entry in the Register of Births"

              Quite clear that it is intended to be as valid as any birth certificate - quite ridiculous, and sad, if there are people who don't understand that when employing people.
              Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
              Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

              Comment


              • #8
                I've only ever had a shortened version and never had a problem. Place of birth on it is England.



                Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

                Comment


                • #9
                  I also have the long version of an adoption certificate, issued Oct. 1939, and it states just the same as AnthonyM's.
                  I have never had a problem getting a passport. It seems that things are moving backwards!! My shortened version Birth Certificate states my name, sex, date of birth, and 'England' as place of birth.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I started this thread because an elderly friend has another elderly friend (both in their 80's) who is interested in finding out about her family history and my friend offered my services to her friend. I have to communicate with the other lady through my friend and it is not easy working through a third party. The lady in question says that she was told she was adopted when she was an adult. I have done some research into her adopted family (quite interesting, they are descended from a famous tightrope walker called Blondin) and now she wants to know about her birth family. As far as I can ascertain she does not know any names. I was confused (before reading your helpful comments) about how she could have survived to a ripe old age and obtained passports etc without a birth certificate which showed at least the birth mother. Now I realise that this was quite possible.

                    So as I understand it she has to apply via an approved agency for her birth details, is that right? Any recommendations?

                    My friend says that her friend says she went down this route some time ago and was told that no information was available; there was some talk of "baby swapping" or something similar. Is this possible? I don't know if it was before or after 1975.

                    It seems that the lady also thinks that the man who brought her up, and told her as an adult that she was adopted, may in fact have been her biological father. This makes no sense to me at all - any ideas on that?

                    Any tips on how to proceed would be welcome.
                    People: Canton, Wiseman, Colthup, Scrace
                    Places: Pembrokeshire, Kent.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There is some relevant information in this book review http://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/806 and in particular explains why biological parents would go through an adoption (to legitimize the child)

                      What the law boils down to (as far as I can tell) is that the 1939 Adoption of Children Regulation (not implemented until 1943) was the first time at which it was required to inform the Local Authority of an adoption taking place and therefore it is not impossible that papers relating to an adoption before 1943 do not exist and there is also the possibility that they were lost during WW2. In addition you have to take the possibility that the word of mouth was not accurate. For example, my wife was told by her parents that she was adopted through the Church of England Children's Society, but they have no record of it.

                      David

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks David, that has cleared up a lot of queries - although my conclusion is that I will probably have to tell the lady that I cannot help her.

                        A puzzle is the phrase in the book you mention:

                        there were also a small number of unmarried parents who adopted their own illegitimate child in order to legitimise them

                        The word 'parents' is in the plural, but I am not sure if this means the two parents of a particular child, or if it referring to unmarried parents in general.
                        If the former, was it after they later married, or could two people unmarried and maybe not even cohabiting adopt a child?
                        If the latter, was it mothers or fathers or both who adopted, and why would it be any better than just keeping the illegitimate child?

                        I guess one scenario would be a married man fathers a child with his (single) mistress who does not want to keep it so he (and his wife) adopts it?
                        Last edited by webwiz; 14-01-15, 12:26.
                        People: Canton, Wiseman, Colthup, Scrace
                        Places: Pembrokeshire, Kent.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Two scenarios spring to mind here (as I understand it):

                          1. An unmarried girl has a child and the father does not chose to be named as the father or denies paternity (she cannot put the father's name on the certificate unless he is present and agrees or does it himself). If she marries (to another man) and he wishes to be known as the father of the child it would be necessary for HIM to adopt the child.

                          2. Presumably, if the mother eventually marries the father of the child - they would have to adopt the child in the same way as above.

                          In both cases they would be altering what the original birth registration stated.

                          Sue

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X