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OK, can anyone help me find any more info after a 6 year gap in searching?

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  • OK, can anyone help me find any more info after a 6 year gap in searching?

    OK, I have re-started looking at my father in law's family for him. I originally started about 10 years ago and then hit a brick wall. I wrote about it on genesreunited at the time but have remained stumped. I wondered whether anyone fancies trying to help me work it all out (again)? It seems as if there are 2 Fred Barber Jepson's but the information on the children make me think not...

    OK, my father in law's grandfather was called Fred Barber Jepson. He was born in Manchester and I have a family copy of his baptism certificate (05/01/1862, Manchester).

    I have found him listed in the 1871 census living with his parents Charles and Maria at 407 Rochdale Road, Manchester (Class: RG10; Piece: 4054; Folio: 48; Page: 5; GSU roll: 846341)

    I have obtained the marriage certificate of Frederick Jepson and Alice Graves from 1879, Manchester. It gives Frederick's father's name as Charles and lists Frederick's occupation as a Boot Salesman. (It also lists his age as 20!) Alice's father is listed as Richard.

    I have obtained the 1880 birth certificate, Cheetham Machester: Charles Harry born to Fred Jepson and Alice Jepson formerly Graves. Occupation: Hatter (?!)

    In the 1881 census, Alice and Charles are living with his parents (Charles and Maria) at 47 Long Mill Gate, Manchester (Class: RG11; Piece: 3992; Folio: 4; Page: 1; GSU roll: 1341953). No sign of Fred.

    In the 1891 census: Fred B Jepson living in Cheetham with his 'wife' Katherine from Scotland, his mother Maria, a widow from Dewsbury, 9 year old son Chas H and 2 year old daughter Carrie. Fred's occupation: Clerk. I don't have a birth certificate for Carrie as I could never find it, but it is showing on ancestry as Dec 1888, Prestwich

    I have obtained the birth certificate and death certificate for Isabel (Isabella Gordon Jepson on death cert) Jepson born and died in Prestwich in 1891/1893. Mother: Kate Gordon.

    I have obtained the 1892 birth certificate, Cheetham Manchester: Elsie born to Fred Jepson and Kate Jepson formerly Gordon. Occupation of father Insurance Clerk.

    Then they appeared to move to Scotland...

    In Scotland's People Valuation Rolls I can see that in 1895 there was a Frederick Jepson who was a tenant occupier at 174 Caldre Street, Govan and Gorbals, Glasgow. By 1905 he was at 292 Main Street, Bonhill, Dunbarton.

    I have obtained the 1897 birth certificate, Bonhill Dumbartonshire, Scotland: Mary born to Fred Jepson and Alice Jepson, maiden surname Graves. Occupation: Insurance Superintendant. (Address of birth 292 Main Street, Alexandria)

    I have obtained the 1899 birth certificate, Bonhill Dumbartonshire Scotland: Fred (father in law's grandfather) born to Fred Barber Jepson and Alice Jepson maiden surname Graves. Occupation: Clerk. (Address of birth 292 Main Street, Alexandria)

    1901 census, Scotland: I need to relook at this as it doesn't seem to be on my computer!

    I have obtained the 1901 marriage certificate, Edinburgh: Charles H Jepson married Violet Robertson. Father: Fred Barber Jepson, mother: Alice Jepson, maiden surname Graves. Fathers' occupation: Mercantile Clerk.

    I have obtained the 1904 birth certificate, Bonhill Dumbarton: William Henry Jepson born to Fred Jepson and Katherine Jepson, maiden surname Gordon. Birth address: 292 Main Street, Alexandria.

    I have obtained the 1913 marriage certificate, Bonhill Dumbarton: Carrie Jepson married Alfred John Davey. Father: Fred Barber Jepson, mother: Katherine Jepson, maiden surname Gordon. Fathers' occupation: Cashier. Carrie's home address: 292 Main Street, Alexandria (!)

    I have obtained the 1918 marriage certificate, Bonhill Dumbarton: Elsie Jepson married Herbert Wilkes. Father: Fred Barber Jepson, mother: Katherine Leckie Jepson, maiden surname Gordon. Fathers' occupation: Invoice clerk. Elsie's home address: 292 Main Street, Alexandria.

    I have obtained the 1920 marriage certificate, Kingsbury Middlesex: Fred Jepson (father in law's father) married Marjorie Elizabeth Ambler. Father Fred Barber Jepson, Occupation: clerk.

    I have obtained the 1931 death certificate, Hendon Middlesex: Frederick Barber Jepson aged 70 at Redhill Hospital, Edgware.

    I can see from ancestry that Katharine Leckie Gordon was buried on 10 December 1941 at Kingsbury, Brent.

    Now, my father in law remember's 'Leckie' who he thought was his grandmother - but Alice is listed on his father Fred's birth certificate as his mother... And she definitely was Scottish!

    So, to precis (!), his children (and wives)

    Charles Harry, b 1880 - mother Alice Jepson (nee Graves)
    Carrie, b. 1888 - mother Kate Leckie Jepson (formerly Gordon)
    Isabella, b. 1891, d. 1893 - mother Kate Gordon
    Elsie, b. 1893 mother Kate Jepson (formerly nee Gordon)
    Mary Jepson, b. 1897 - mother Alice Jepson (formerly Graves)
    Fred, b. 1899 - Alice Jepson (formerly Graves)
    William Henry - Catherine Leckie Jepson (formerly Gordon)



    Anyway, I am still looking for the following:

    • Birth and Death certificates for Alice Jepson (her last child was born in 1899)

    • Marriage cert for Fred Barber and Katherine Leckie Gordon (again, who knows when, if there is one at all!)

    OR - how can I check if Alice and Katharine are the same person????

    Sorry for wittering, I hope someone can advise where I can turn to next (or find some elusive missing details).

    Thanks in advance! (and sorry for any errors, I have proof-read but...)
    :D Charney Jo

  • #2
    Posting as I read. I have seen an 1881 census for Fred Jepson a Hatter. Will do another search and post. I did wonder how someone who was previously a Shoe Salesman became a County Council Clerk.

    I did note on the marriage for Fred and Alice 1879 they give their father's as deceased when in fact the Charles of Charles and Maria was alive as was Robert father of Alice - possibly because they were underage at the time.

    Vera
    Last edited by vera2013; 04-01-15, 21:06.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Vera. Yes, if all the entries are correct he had a very varied career! (Partly thinks not all of these can be correct, but...)

      I can't find a Fred Jepson who was a hatter in 1881. But then I am not as good as some at searching ancestry. Also very rusty!

      Thanks for your help.
      :D Charney Jo

      Comment


      • #4
        The 1901 Scottish census (transcription only on Ancestry and FMP) is for Fredk B Jackson, 292 Main St Bonhill. He's a stock and pay clerk, b England aged 39

        Wife Alice aged 37 b Cas or Car Douglas Kirkcudbrightshire
        Carrie 12 b England
        Elsie 7 b England
        Mary 3 b Alexandria, Dumbartonshire
        Fred 1 b Alexandria, Dumbartonshire

        Begin your discovery today by exploring the world's largest online family history resource!
        Jackie

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        • #5
          Thanks Jackie. I knew the info wasn't too different to what I had but ... Alice as wife? Argghhh?
          :D Charney Jo

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Night Owl View Post
            The 1901 Scottish census (transcription only on Ancestry and FMP) is for Fredk B Jackson, 292 Main St Bonhill. He's a stock and pay clerk, b England aged 39

            Wife Alice aged 37 b Cas or Car Douglas Kirkcudbrightshire
            Carrie 12 b England
            Elsie 7 b England
            Mary 3 b Alexandria, Dumbartonshire
            Fred 1 b Alexandria, Dumbartonshire
            Cas Douglas is Castle Douglas.
            Bonhill is effectively part of Alexandria.
            In this context, "England" may only be a few miles over the border (e.g. Carlisle).
            Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

            Comment


            • #7
              Vera, you kindly found a link to a Percy Jepson aged 6 who was staying with John Gordon (maybe Katharine Leckie Gordon's dad) on 1891. I CANNOT find a Percy anywhere in the family. Grrr... Anyone?
              :D Charney Jo

              Comment


              • #8
                So, Uncle John (or anyone), if the census has her listed as being born in Castle Douglas, could this be her birth registration?

                Name: Katharine Leckie Gordon
                Gender: Female
                Birth Date: 25 Mar 1864
                Birth Place: Kelton,Kirkcudbright,Scotland
                Father: John Gordon
                Mother: Isabella Mcwilliam
                :D Charney Jo

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                • #9
                  Kate's baptism

                  Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


                  Katharine Leckie Gordon
                  Gender: Female
                  Birth Date: 25 Mar 1864
                  Birthplace: KELTON,KIRKCUDBRIGHT,SCOTLAND
                  Father's Name: John Gordon
                  Mother's Name: Isabella Mcwilliam


                  EDIT***Sorry, cross posting, had it hanging a while whilst looking!
                  Last edited by Elaine; 04-01-15, 22:31.
                  Elaine

                  Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                  http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                  http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

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                  • #10
                    Family Search has John Gordon and Isabella McWilliams as being the parents of Katherine Leckie Gordon, who was born 25 March 1864 at Kelton, Kirkcudbrightshire. They had 4 other daughters
                    all born in Kelton. John died at nearby Gatehouse of Fleet in 1913,his wiofe Isabella had died in 1867 aged 32 years. Kelton is just a short distance from Castle Douglas.

                    Matt

                    PS I have a monumental inscription of the family headstone in in Kelton cemetery.
                    Last edited by Matt Muir; 04-01-15, 22:36.
                    My avatar is my fathers father,name unknown.............................

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                    • #11
                      Thanks Elaine and Matt. I had seen this entry (of course) for ages but didn't want to jump to conclusions that it is her.

                      Matt, thanks for the extra info. I hadn't got that far. Interesting because Vera linked to a 1891 Scottish census with John Gordon, the right age to be Katharine's father, and a 6 year old visitor called Percy. I can't find any Percy's that match my family ...

                      Begin your discovery today by exploring the world's largest online family history resource!
                      :D Charney Jo

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                      • #12
                        re 1881 census for Fred Barber Jepson. Sorrry, thought I had seen him as a Hatter and Lodger. Did find him again but unfortunately it was the wrong Fred (he appeared with same family on the 1911) and also it was the 1901 census I had seen.

                        Vera

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                        • #13
                          No problem Vera.

                          What do you think of my Alice / Katharine conundrum?
                          :D Charney Jo

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have made a search of my photographs of Kelton cemetery and found one that relates to the Gordon family which I have transcribed below.
                            You will see that it shows John Gordon husband of Isabella McWilliams, as being a "Gas Fitter" which ties in with Post No 11 above.
                            In Memory of
                            Jane Clune
                            wife of John Gordon.Mason,Castle Douglas.
                            who died 19th January 1842 aged 46 years.
                            And of his children,
                            James & William
                            who died in Infancy.
                            Margaret
                            wife of Thomas Johnstone who died at
                            Manchester 21st July 1854
                            aged 26 years.
                            Janet Keauchie
                            His wife who died 13th November 1858
                            aged 51 years.
                            Also the said John Gordon who died
                            at Gatehouse 24th May 1884 aged 98 years.
                            Isabella McWilliam
                            his daughter in law
                            wife of John Gordon Gas Fitter,
                            who died 6th May 1867 aged 32 years.
                            Isabella
                            youngest daughter of the Erector
                            who died at Manchester 13 November 1911
                            aged 55 years.
                            And of the above John Gordon gas fitter,
                            who died at Gatehouse 3rd February 1913 aged 85 years.

                            Sorry,couldn't get it to line up.
                            Matt
                            My avatar is my fathers father,name unknown.............................

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Wow, thanks Matt!

                              That gives me so many more names. So, who was Euphemia that was listed as Head of the house where John (if it's the right one) was staying at the time of the 1891 census. He is listed as brother

                              search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1891Scotland&indiv=try&h=3486314
                              :D Charney Jo

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                So, a relative (Margaret) died in Manchester according to the memorial. Was that a common place to go do you know? That's where Fred was born ... and Katharine, presumably, met him.
                                :D Charney Jo

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Oh, and (another) Isabella who died in Manchester in 1911
                                  :D Charney Jo

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Hi Charney Jo

                                    A few thoughts on what I would do if I had not searched in recent years as there is so much more available on-line now.

                                    - Check out Scotlandspeople for the Scottish information - I know you have birth certs, but check anyway.
                                    - Check out the 1911 census on ancestry.
                                    Also try the websites - familysearch.com, LancsBMD, Manchester burials, findmypast.co.uk.

                                    Look for Charles and Maria Jepson in the 1861 census (and earlier if possible), do their ages and places of birth match up with the ones you have?
                                    Do you have their deaths ? Who registered their deaths ?

                                    Check all the census for everyone, even after the children married, check for other Fred Jepsons. Are the other people with Barber as a middle name related to Fred ? Do you know where the Barber came from ?

                                    All this might seem not to help identify if Fred had two wives at the same time, but you never know where a clue might be found - marriage witnesses, as well as parents named.

                                    Was Katherine buried as Katherine Leckie Gordon, or Katherine Leckie Jepson - Gordon would seem to indicate they were never married. Who registered Katherine and Fred's deaths ?

                                    I think that I would just track every person for every piece of evidence - it does seem a confusing situation.

                                    Di
                                    Diane
                                    Sydney Australia
                                    Avatar: Reuben Edward Page and Lilly Mary Anne Dawson

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Charney Jo View Post
                                      No problem Vera.

                                      What do you think of my Alice / Katharine conundrum?
                                      Still trying to get my head around it. How about:

                                      Married 1879 Alice had one child Chas H in 1880. Alice either incarcerated or still about and he begins affair with Catherine with whom he has children from 1884-1893 in England. Then moves to Scotland. Later joined by Alice (Catherine in England or Scotland) and has 2 more children with Alice between 1897-1899. Alice dies and he then resumes relationship with Catherine with another child in 1904.

                                      However not sure who he is with in 1911 census Scotland. Do you have details of that?

                                      Vera

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