Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Samuel Taylor Pittock b 1833 Manningtree, Essex

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Samuel Taylor Pittock b 1833 Manningtree, Essex

    This chap has been on my Tree for a while - have yet again visited him to try and find his death and failed.
    He was a Sailor ?naval or fisherman.
    In 1859 age 26 he married Clara Sophia Rayner b1837 Gt. Baddow, Essex in Chelmsford, Essex.
    They had 6 children, the last (Edith Louisa) being born in 1871 in Whitchurch, Shropshire.
    It is difficult to sort out which children are whose as his widow went on to marry at least x2 having more children - she seems to have been repeatedly widowed! She appears to have remarried in 1883 following the "departure" of Samuel.
    I suspect the 1871 census would give a clue but cannot find it for either of them and I don't know where they were living then.
    Any clues as to what happened to Samuel would be greatly appreciated.
    One thing I did notice on a previous census (1851 I think) is that although Samuel described himself as a sailor - there were neighbours around him who described themselves as Mariners - not sure if that makes a difference between naval or fisherman - my inclination is to think he was a fisherman.
    1841 census: http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/89...-=ReturnRecord
    [1851 and 1861 census with him on it I have not found BUT just whilst looking for them again to put on here I found another marriage for Samuel in 1850 to Eliza Mander at St. Anne, Soho, Westminster - can't be too many people with his combination of names] - I haven't got a marriage certificate online for this marriage.

    Sue

  • #2
    the Samuel Taylor Pittock marriage to Eliza Mander is online on Ancestry

    Comment


    • #3
      Have you got access to FMP? They have maritime records about a Samuel Pittock born Essex in 1832/1833.

      UPDATE: Born Manningtree 28/01/1833
      Caroline
      Caroline's Family History Pages
      Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi, had a look on Ancestry and if your Samuel was born in 1833 in Manningtree, you already know he was living with his grandparents in 1841, if you look for the 1851 census under his grandparents name you'll find he is still living with his grandparents in Manningtree, he is 18 years old, unmarried and a sailor. He married Clara Sophia Raynor in 1859 in Chelmsford as you know and he wasn't just a sailor, he was a Merchant Navy Seamen, he is in the records of Find My Past "Merchant Navy Seamen 1835-1941" although they only seem to hold the record (many times over) for his service between 1845-1854.

        There is a Samuel Taylor Pittock who was christened in 1825 in Kersey, Suffolk, that's 8 years before your Samuel was born, who married an Eliza Mander in 1850, who's parents were Samuel Pittock and Anne Whymark.


        I hope this is of some help to you.

        Pam

        Comment


        • #5
          Thank you all so much for that. There is still a problem however. On her second marriage Clara Sophia Theobald nee Rayner has married Edward Lloydd Summers a bachelor age 33 (engineer). Clara 39 is a widow (suspect she was creative with her age here). On the certificate the father of Clara is correct i.e. Henry Rayner - this marriage took place on 8.4.1883 at All Saints Church, Newington, Surrey. I cannot find a marriage to THEOBALD!

          Intrigued by the fact that Samuel Taylor Pittock was Merchant Navy and that there are navy records on FMP - I am not a member but I understand credits can be bought (since they altered the site I have had great difficulty using it at all and tend not to, although I know others feel it is better).

          Pam: Many thanks - my Samuel was born in 1833 in Manningtree so I obviously had the incorrect one when I found the marriage to Eliza Mander - extremely glad to be able to sought that bit out. I also didn't realise Samuel was living with his grandparents in 1841 - obviously didn't look closely enough - thought it was his parents - I should now be able to find the 1851 census but as for Mr. Theobald ................!

          I really appreciate this help - Sam and Clara are driving me round the bend and have put off returning to them to try and sort it out for so long .....................Sue

          Comment


          • #6
            May I ask where the Taylor middle name came from? Looking at the original baptism entry for 1833 at Manningtree it looks like Paskell. I'll 'pm' you.
            Last edited by keldon; 05-01-15, 15:30.
            Phil
            historyhouse.co.uk
            Essex - family and local history.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi all who helped me with this chap.
              First of - I actually don't know where the middle name Pittock came from but wherever it did - iit didn't come to my Samuel I think my Samuel IS "Thackley". I now have his Merchant Navy record and his death (he died in Bishops Stortford, Herts on 24.10.1857). His death does not seem to be a naval death -I am not sure they get a lot of ships in Bishops Stortford.
              I am finding the document almost impossible to read and I a guessing a lot.
              His dob is confirmed as 28.1.1833. His merchant navy no. is 439.?021. He had a second class regular ticket. He was an apprentice (type not given). He had brown hair and blue eyes.
              His wife's name is not given on his record or, if it is, I cannot read it.
              The ships he served on appear to be listed but again unreadable.
              I think, basically, I have the vital information on Samuel.

              What I am still unable to find out is why, without finding a marriage for Samuel's widow until much later, when she comes to marry again she is marrying as the widow of Theobald and marrying a Summers.
              I am very confused at this point because I have a marriage for Clara Sophia Rayner in 1859 BUT Sam had died on 24.10.1857.

              I think I might be going mad!

              Sue
              Edit: Have just found probate - this disagrees with the date of death which is apparently 19 October 1857 but in correct place - Bishops Stortford.
              Last edited by Sue1; 07-01-15, 18:17.

              Comment


              • #8
                Edit: Have just found probate - this disagrees with the date of death which is apparently 19 October 1857 but in correct place - Bishops Stortford.

                According to a death announcement in the Chelmsford Chronicle of 23rd Oct 1857:
                19th inst, aged 68, Mr Samuel Pittock of Bishop Stortford

                So it doesn't look like this is the naval Samuel Pittock who was born 1833 Manningtree. Plus the probate associated with this death was granted to a Mary A Rayner.

                Having said that - it may be just me but I'm a bit confused by your latest post. Are we looking for a Samuel Taylor Pittock, Samuel Thackley Pittock or Samuel Paskell Pittock as mentioned by Keldon in post 6 above? Could you clarify?

                I too have drawn a blank on a marriage between Clara and Mr Theobald - I assume you don't have a first name for him?


                Researching:
                HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Oops - too late to edit previous post - 3rd paragraph should say:
                  Plus the probate associated with this death was granted to a Mary A Pittock.
                  Researching:
                  HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Whoops - couple of senior moments there! Samuel Taylor Pittock is definitely not the correct chap and "Thackley" for some unbeknown reason seems to be a name I made up a short while ago!
                    The name that Keldon gave me (Paskell) is, the correct one.

                    Since typing the post you responded to, I have discovered 2 things. Clara Sophia's oldest sister was Mary Ann Rayner - perhaps I have been barking up the wrong Tree altogether (unintended pun). I looked up Mary Ann Rayner/Pittock and there was one but when I looked at the original entry (handwritten) it said Emma Ann Rayner - I checked with my Tree and although there are many siblings none of them is Emma!
                    Went back in again and couldn't re-find the entry at all! Mary Ann is single on my Tree - she was born in 1831 in Sandon, Essex and died in 1912 in Essex - I don't have provenance for that death.
                    I don't have a first name for Mr. Theobald - it just says on the 1883 marriage certificate Clara Sophia Theobald a widow married Edward Lloydd Summers in Newington. He was born 1850 and died in 1887. Clara Sophia was considerably older than him.
                    I don't think I can do any more tonight BUT tomorrow I will have a very close look at Mary Ann, Clara Sophia's oldest sister - something is obviously very wrong somewhere and I have just noticed something that I am surprised I didn't notice before. When Clara Sophia was supposedly married she had her first child (a little Pittock) in 1862 i.e. Clara Maud Pittock and the last of quite a few in 1871 who was Edith Louise Pittock - 1871 is not a possible date for Pittocks because he died on 24.10.1857 .................how could I have not noticed that - none of those children could be his! Perhaps Clara Sophia didn't marry anyone except Mr. Summers - odd that Mr. Theobald cannot be found because all the little Pittocks cannot be little Pittocks - perhaps her sister Mary Ann had the two marriages and Clara Sophia only married Mr. Summers.

                    I have got to the stage where I can't see straight I have sat here for so long today and I certainly can't think straight anymore. Will start fresh again tomorrow and try to find a Mary Ann Rayner married to a Pittock - there are, however, an enormous amount of Rayners most of whom seem to come from Essex.

                    Sue
                    Last edited by Sue1; 07-01-15, 20:31.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sue,
                      I think you are still tying yourself in knots - first of all, see my correction post 9 - there's no indication that the 1857 Samuel Pittock who died in Bishop Stortford had any Rayner connection so far as I can tell.

                      Secondly, the children are Pittocks as
                      - your Samuel Pittock did not die in 1857 - we have yet to find a death for him
                      - I can't find the rest of the family in 1871, but found Clara Maud, daughter of Samuel and Clara Sophia, who is with her maternal grandparents at Threadneedle Street, Chelmsford
                      Henry Rayner head married 70 brickmaker born Halstead, Essex
                      Mary Ann Rayner wife married 70 wife of above born Great Baddow, Essex
                      Clara Maud Pittock granddaughter 8 Scholar born Chelmsford, Essex

                      1881 census
                      11 Lower Primrose Hill, Primrose Terrace, Chelmsford
                      Clara Sophia Theobald head widow 37 (fibbing re her age here - she was born 1837) annuitant born Chelmsford, Essex
                      Clara Maud Pittock daughter unmarried 17 dressmaker born Vauxhall, Surrey (different from 1871 record for her above)
                      Florence Jane Pittock daughter unmarried 16 dressmaker born Colchester Essex
                      Ada Pittock daughter unmarried 12 scholar born Bridport Dorset
                      Edith V Pittock daughter unmarried 10 scholar born ?methchurst? , Salop (ie Shropshire)

                      So the mysterious Mr Theobald must have appeared on the scene between 1871 and 1881 - although that's still not helped me in finding a possible marriage.

                      Can you give the names of the other children of Samuel and Clara in addition to those mentioned in 1881 census above?

                      Hope this helps straighten them out a bit more!

                      Regards,
                      Christine
                      Researching:
                      HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Christine, Many thanks for that - I have found something odd also - the original marriage certificate of one of the Pittock daughters states her father is Samuel TAYLOR Pittock!!
                        All the children of Samuel Pittock and Clare Sophia Rowland are:

                        1. Clare Maud Pittock b1862 Lambeth, Surrey - 1891 census (RG12/814 Dist 13) - age 25 living in Brighton. Occ: Servant/Single

                        2. Reuben Charles Pittock b1864 - d1936 - married Rose Matilda Stollery on 28.1.1888 at St. Johns Church, Walworth, Surrey. HIS FATHER IS DECEASED AND STATED TO BE SAMUEL TAYLOR PITTOCK
                        Reuben was born in 1864 in Whitworth, Staffordshire

                        3. Florence Jane Pittock b 1865 Colchester - d 1837 married Eli Charles Giles on 25.4.1887 at St. John the Evangelist Church, Lambeth, Surrey (original cert not seen)


                        4. Caroline Elizabeth Pittock b1867 - d1886 (born Ipswich, Suffolk)
                        In 1883 she was posted officially as missing (mother re-married that year) Her aunt had apparently taken her to USA - she was 16 and she never returned


                        5. Edith Louisa Pittock b 1871 Shifnal Whitchurch, Shropshire. In 1881 living in Chelmsford age 10
                        25.12.1889 marriage to John Petherick Trussler at St. John the Evangelist, Walworth, Surrey.
                        Father's name mistranscribed as SAMUEL PETTOCK

                        I really appreciate you looking at this for me. Sue
                        Last edited by Sue1; 08-01-15, 01:21.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sue, I was looking at this last night and was wondering at your confusion.
                          The Marriage record for Clara Sophia Rayner is to Samuel TAYLOR Pittock Chelmsford Mar 1859 4a 174.
                          Have you not got this cert?
                          Kat

                          My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Kat,

                            I have found that entry for the marriage in Chelmsford in 1859.
                            The thing that threw me over all of this is the previous marriage I had found of Samuel Taylor Pittock to Ann Mander - original entry: http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/16...l=ReturnRecord
                            When Samuel Taylor Pittock married Clara Sophia the original entry states he is a bachelor. They are obviously not the same person but I am surprised to find two of them with what I would have thought was a fairly unusual combination of names - obviously not.
                            The other thing that threw me was the original entry of Clara Sophia's marriage to Summers where she is described as Clara Sophia Theobald - I can't explain that at all and I certainly cannot find Mr. Theobald.

                            There have been some queries over this last entry's transcription - copy of the original document attached is quite clear, however, although even vicars have been known to get their entries wrong (once saw a baptismal entry in Norfolk where the vicar had done a lot of baptisms and obviously entered everything afterwards and for one of the entries when it came to the child's name he had written with endearing honesty "can't remember").

                            I don't think I am the only one struggling with this, however, which is some consolation - quite a few others have this couple on their Tree or are researching the Pittocks and there are enormous variations in their data.

                            Sue

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Christine,

                              "I think you are still tying yourself in knots - first of all, see my correction post 9 - there's no indication that the 1857 Samuel Pittock who died in Bishop Stortford had any Rayner connection so far as I can tell."

                              I totally agree with what you say regarding the above - his Probate note says he is 65 I think and he is a Hatter - he is not mine.

                              Back to the research board! I am beginning to lose the plot here I think.

                              Sue

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Sue1 View Post
                                This chap has been on my Tree for a while - have yet again visited him to try and find his death and failed.

                                In 1859 age 26 he married Clara Sophia Rayner b1837 Gt. Baddow, Essex in Chelmsford, Essex.


                                Sue
                                I have searched the Great Baddow and Chelmsford parish records on SEAX and cannot find the marriage. Which parish church was it?

                                The marriage to Eliza gives father Samuel as a builder what was his occupation on the Clara marriage?
                                Last edited by Katarzyna; 08-01-15, 14:08.
                                Kat

                                My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post
                                  I have searched the Great Baddow and Chelmsford parish records on SEAX and cannot find the marriage. Which parish church was it?

                                  The marriage to Eliza gives father Samuel as a builder what was his occupation on the Clara marriage?
                                  I've been looking as well and couldn't see it. So I don't muddy the waters, Katarzyna have a look at this baptism entry for January 1860 on SEAX and see whether it's useful.
                                  Last edited by keldon; 08-01-15, 14:40.
                                  Phil
                                  historyhouse.co.uk
                                  Essex - family and local history.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Thanks Keldon. I think this is going to muddy the waters

                                    Baptism of a Kate Selina Mary Anne Pittock 29 Jan 1860 Great Baddow parents Samuel Taylor and Clara Sophia and Parents are living Warley Essex which is about 20 miles from Great Baddow.
                                    Have found her marriage.


                                    Bethnal Green.
                                    Father Samuel was a builder Deceased.
                                    Last edited by Katarzyna; 08-01-15, 15:00.
                                    Kat

                                    My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Hi Kat, The marriage I had found, with original entry, was to Ann Mander and that took place in St. Annes Church, Westminster on 1.12.1850 - no longer have entry on Tree because I accepted that he cannot be the correct chap who married Clara Sophia - or do we have a bit of bigamy going on here. Ann Mander the girl he married did die but no longer have these details.
                                      The marriage in Chelmsford, Essex, I do not have the original entry only Q1 1859 Chelmsford 4a p174.
                                      I have looked at the anc.co reference map for exactly where 4a is in Chelmsford Registration area and I cannot find it. However, if the marriage took place in the Chelmsford area it is very likely to be at St. Mary the Virgin, Great Baddow, Essex - most (but not all) of the Essex lot of mine married here. Clara Sophia was born in Great Baddow. Her address in 1881 was Lower Primrose Hill, ll Primrose Hill, Chelmsford, Essex. She is a widow by the name of Theobald! Not sure where that is in Essex (not necessarily Chelmsford itself of course).
                                      I also notice that Clara Sophia must have moved about quite a lot because of the places of birth of her children:
                                      1864 Clara Maud, Vauxhall, Surrey,
                                      Florence Jane was born in Colchester (Chelmsford Reg)
                                      Ada was born in 1869 Bridport, Dorset
                                      Edith was born in Whitchurch, Shropshire
                                      I am assuming they moved around a bit with Samuel.

                                      I will have a good look for a copy of the marriage of Clara Sophia and Samuel but I suppose there is a possibility that if he was in the MN when they married it could have been done in a naval church (perhaps only Royal Navy have their own on-base churches) or they married in a register office.

                                      I will try today to get all the census together for the family up to 1881 to see if they reveal any clues.
                                      I will also see if I can find the original entry of the marriage which is probably the most important.

                                      Sincerely grateful for your help and yours also Keldon.

                                      Sue
                                      Last edited by Sue1; 08-01-15, 15:21.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I am assuming (not a wise thing to do in genealogy) that Kate Selina Mary Ann Pittock is a child of Samuel Pittock and Clara Sophia of whom I haven't heard. She undoubtedly belongs to the family - both Selina and Mary Ann are recurring names and come from the Rowland part of the family originally. Never heard of Mr. Bristow until now. Sue

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X