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Rosenthal family 1911?

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  • Rosenthal family 1911?

    Hello

    I have Barnett Rosenthal born 1865 in Russia and his wife Rebecca born 1864 also in Russia.
    I have them on the 1901 census in Huddersfield with kids.

    I know that some of the kids moved to Hartford Connecticut and some stayed in the Lancashire area.
    Can someone see if they can find Barnett and Rebecca on the 1911 census please?

    Many thanks

    Danny
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=528974734

  • #2
    possibly him in 1911, no age:
    Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.


    and probably the same household:
    Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.
    Last edited by PhotoFamily; 14-10-14, 20:43.

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    • #3
      I clicked on the link but it states that Barnett was 23. Some of the family started going by the name Rose at one point but at the time of his and his wifes death they were registered under Rosenthal.

      Danny
      http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=528974734

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes, ancestry mis-transcribed surname to Thal (!)
        Ancestry® helps you understand your genealogy. A family tree takes you back generations—the world's largest collection of online family history records makes it easy to trace your lineage.

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        • #5
          Sorry to be a pain but at present I cannot view that link. I don't suppose you could list the details could you?
          Again, sorry to be a pain.

          Danny
          http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=528974734

          Comment


          • #6
            He's not - he's 43
            or rather, 44, with kids born in Huddersfield
            Last edited by PhotoFamily; 14-10-14, 20:51.

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            • #7
              I'm confused. On the link it says 23 but I assume on the original viewing of it it states 43?

              Danny
              http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=528974734

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              • #8
                Originally posted by PhotoFamily View Post
                possibly him in 1911, no age:
                Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.
                I agree - not sure why I thought this one was good
                Originally posted by PhotoFamily View Post
                and probably the same household:
                https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XWV3-TGX
                And I had copied the same one instead of the new one that I thought I had grabbed.


                but I think the link in #4 are your people?

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                • #9
                  Sorry Photo, I'm not able to see link 4 as I have no access. Who else does it have on there and does it just say Russia for pob?

                  Thank you for helping

                  Danny
                  http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=528974734

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Household:
                    Barnett Rose Thal 44
                    Rebecca Thal 43
                    Minnie Thal 17
                    Charlie Thal 15
                    Amanuel Thal 13
                    Jasie Thal 12
                    Ratie Thal 9
                    Issael Thal 5

                    Name: Barnett Rose Thal
                    Age in 1911: 44
                    Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
                    Relation to Head: Head
                    Gender: Male
                    Birth Place: Russia
                    Civil Parish: Liverpool
                    County/Island: Lancashire
                    Country: England
                    Street address: 31 Moon Street Liverpool
                    Marital Status: Married
                    Occupation: Presser (Tailor)
                    Registration district: Liverpool
                    Registration District Number: 453
                    Sub-registration district: Abercromby

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you Photo

                      Much appreciated

                      Danny
                      http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=528974734

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        So I think this must be Rebecca indexed on FS, but FS doesn't give you all household members for 1911:
                        Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.

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                        • #13
                          Trying to force FS to give info, I searched for Rosenthals living in Liverpool who were born in Huddersfield:

                          You could search for the other children in a similar fashion.
                          Minnie and Charlie were born in Leeds/York;
                          Israel in Lancs/york
                          Rebecca & Barnett had been married 26 yrs (uh, probably), had 11 children, 10 living, one deceased

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                          • #14
                            I have 10 children for Barnett and Rebecca so somewhere along the line they had a child which died in between census. Also there first child was born in 1887 but they were married in 1885. I cannot find the marriage so I assume it took place in Russia before they came over.

                            With only Russia to go on I'm afraid I will not find the marriage. I know the mothers maiden name was Levy so at least that's something to go on.

                            Danny
                            http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=528974734

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I've recently been helping someone explore her Russian Jewish ancestors - there may be more available than you think. First - ancestry has UK naturalization records - but I'm guessing you haven't looked? Also, there was no note in the 1911 that he had naturalized.

                              Barnett is in the Lewis Family Tree on a.com. Father is Israel, and was living in Manchester in the 1891.

                              Not seeing UK naturalization papers for him, tho I didn't do a fancy name search.

                              No idea where in Russia? Tried newspapers?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Yes, definitely father is Israel; from the 1891:
                                Name: Barnet Rosenthal
                                Age: 24
                                Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
                                Relation: Head
                                Spouse's Name: Rebecca Rosenthal
                                Father's Name: Israel Rosenthal
                                Gender: Male
                                Where born: Russia
                                Civil Parish: Manchester
                                Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
                                County/Island: Lancashire
                                Country: England
                                Street address:

                                Occupation:

                                Condition as to marriage:

                                Education:

                                Employment status:

                                View image
                                Registration district: Manchester
                                Sub-registration district: Central
                                ED, institution, or vessel: 38
                                Neighbors: View others on page
                                Piece: 3241
                                Folio: 21
                                Page Number: 22
                                Household Members:
                                Name Age
                                Barnet Rosenthal 24
                                Rebecca Rosenthal 25
                                Ettie Rosenthal 4
                                Sam Rosenthal 3
                                Wolfe Rosenthal 1
                                Israel Rosenthal 75

                                So, did you find any children born in Russia?

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  What is your source of mother's maiden name? The reason I ask is because on another extensive thread on here, we discovered that Jewish people did not understand the concept of "maiden name" (nor did many other Europeans) and we had one lady with seven (?) children, where she gives five different "maiden" names.

                                  The other point is that Orthodox Jews considered their own religious marriage ceremony far more important than the civil recording thereof...so there may be no formal record. If there IS a record, it is sometimes not in the names that you are expecting it to be, but in their religious synagogue names.

                                  OC

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                                  • #18
                                    Another lesson I learned: Jewish gravestones often have the name of the parents. Are these relatives ones that you would consider buying the certs, maybe paying to for a photo of the headstone?

                                    Others may know, or the reference guide may list, references for Jewish records in the Liverpool area.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by PhotoFamily View Post
                                      Another lesson I learned: Jewish gravestones often have the name of the parents. Are these relatives ones that you would consider buying the certs, maybe paying to for a photo of the headstone?

                                      Others may know, or the reference guide may list, references for Jewish records in the Liverpool area.
                                      We had a thread on here a while back on the Sensitive Board that explored all the Liverpool Jewish records I'll see if I can find it for you to look at.

                                      Margaret

                                      PS it was titled Hospital Records and went to over 13 threads as it was so extensive - worth a look - lots of cemetery records, lots of Synagogue references too.
                                      Last edited by margaretmarch; 14-10-14, 22:56.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Try JewGen and jewish data

                                        Originally posted by quiffdo View Post
                                        Hello

                                        I have Barnett Rosenthal born 1865 in Russia and his wife Rebecca born 1864 also in Russia.
                                        I have them on the 1901 census in Huddersfield with kids.

                                        I know that some of the kids moved to Hartford Connecticut and some stayed in the Lancashire area.
                                        Can someone see if they can find Barnett and Rebecca on the 1911 census please?

                                        Many thanks

                                        Danny
                                        www.jewishgen.org is very helpful in finding docs. You could look up the family there. The big thing that would be helpful is to figure out what country they were really from. Russia can equal Poland, Lithuania or even Germany or Belarus during that time. I would look for his death and find the tombstone. If you can find his death, email me and I will search for the gentleman that took a photo of a tombstone in England for me a while back. The tombstone will tell you his father's name. Remember in your searches that Jews in this time may have had up to 3 names: their Russian (or whereever) name, their Jewish/religious name and their anglosized name. This will help you keep an opened mind in finding them. Ultimately, what are you looking for in finding him? Is the marriage certificate the main goal, or something else? I ask, as there are likely many other places you can get other data that might be easier than the marriage certificate. As has been stated before, the naturalization docs are imperative to gather. They will have his parent's names, along with exactly where he is from in Russia. That may allow you to find original documents.
                                        Thank you, in advance, for helping me in my search!
                                        Gina Coco

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