Pike/Gallagher mystery

[Rick]

Inspired by the thread by Karen (Fuzzy) about the Hogg/Smith marriage, I thought I'd add my own.

The things i could do with some help on:

Why is Marianne's maiden name Flower only on my GG grandmother's birth certificate ?
Where is Marianne and son Edward in 1841 ?
Why have 3 children then call banns but not marry, then 4 more children before actually marrying ?
Why does there appear to be no birth record for 4 of the 9 children ?
Where's Alfred after 1861 ?
Where's Marianne after 1881 ?

Here's the timeline:

1816 Alfred Pike born St George in the East, Middx (& congregationalist baptism)
c1819 Marianne Gallagher born St Luke, Middx (no baptism found)
1840 Alfred's father Edward dies in Covent Garden. Informant is M.E.Pike, daughter-in-law (I assume this is Marianne as Edward only has two living sons and the other is married to a Susanna)
c1840 Birth of Alfred & Marianne's son, Edward in Marylebone (no birth found - age 10 in 51)
1841 census http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/89...l=ReturnRecord
c1841 Birth of son Alfred in St Pancras (no birth found - age 9 in 51)
1843 Birth of Marianne in St Anne, Westminster (mother's maiden name Gallagher)
1844 Banns called 2nd, 9th & 16th June at St Mary Islington, batchelor & spinster. No marriage (other banns on the same page have the date of marriage recorded, but "Out" is written on theirs).
1844 Birth of Emilie in Soho (mother's maiden name Flower)
1847 Birth of Henry Gaudin Pike in St Martin in the Fields (mother's maiden name Gallagher - the middle name Gaudin is after a French photographic pioneer)
c1849 Birth of Lily Marianne Pike in St John's Wood, Middx (no birth found - age 2 in 51 as Louisa, 12 in 61 as Mathida, missing in 71, 31 in 81, 39 in 91, 51 in 01, 54 in 03 - died)
1850 Birth of Charles in Camberwell (no birth found, 4mo in 51)
1851 census http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/88...l=ReturnRecord
1851 Banns called at St Mary Islington, followed by marriage on 14th Sept. Batchelor & spinster. her father Thomas Gallagher, bootmaker
1856 Birth of Frederick Pierce Pike in Soho
1858 Birth of William Pike in Soho (mother's maiden name Gallagher)
1861 census http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/87...l=ReturnRecord
1871 census Marianne is married and head of family in St Pancras http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/76...l=ReturnRecord
1881 census Marianne is married and living with daughter Lily's family (Saunders) in Croydon http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/75...l=ReturnRecord

[vera2013]

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1841&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=marianne&gsln=galla*her&msbdy=1818&msbpn__ftp=st+luke%2c+middlesex&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=326&msbdp=2&_83004003-n_xcl=m&cp=11&pcat=35&fh=0&h=7999507&recoff=10+11&ml_rpos=1

1841 Census

Possibly Marianne but no Edward.

Marianne Gallagher 20 born in county ? Hair Maker living with
John Thomas 25 Printer born in county
Mrs Thomas 20 born in Ireland

?Wine Office Court
St Bride and Precinct
Middlesex
London with the Walls
Reg District West London

Wonder if Edward is with grandparents


Vera

[Elaine]

Hi Rick

Lillie is with the family 1871

Have I got it right that Edward (hair dresser) marries Emma Harmer? Alfred snr then as photographer?

[Rick]

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...0+11&ml_rpos=1

1841 Census

Possibly Marianne but no Edward.

Marianne Gallagher 20 born in county ? Hair Maker living with
John Thomas 25 Printer born in county
Mrs Thomas 20 born in Ireland

?Wine Office Court
St Bride and Precinct
Middlesex
London with the Walls
Reg District West London

Wonder if Edward is with grandparents


Vera

For several years I had that as Marianne in my tree Vera !! Until I found her still single and still living with John Thomas in 1851 and 1861 as his cousin and discounted her. The hair worker thing freaked me out when I realised it was wrong.

[Rick]

Hi Rick

Lillie is with the family 1871

Have I got it right that Edward (hair dresser) marries Emma Harmer? Alfred snr then as photographer?

Oops - yes you're right about the 1871 Elaine. Yes, Edward married Emma Harmer. Alfred was variously a wig maker, hair worker or artiste in hair. But 7 of his 9 children married between 1868 and 1877 and he is never marked as deceased, whereas some spouses' fathers are. He is a photographer on some, and wig maker or variants on others. Several sons became photographers, including Alfred who had a professional studio on the Isle of Wight.

[vera2013]

Found Cousin John. That was a tempting one, her being a Hair Maker. Not seeing her as a Gallagher (variations of), Pike or even Flower in 1841 or young Edward.

Wondered if when asked about mother's maiden name, she gave her own mother's but not seeing a likely marriage between a Flower and a Gallagher.

Not sure why banns were read then no marriage then marriage much later on with both being recorded as bachelor/spinster at the time. Possible previous marriage for Marianne as a Flower to a Gallacher. Now I am rambling with nothing to back it up. Maybe just didn't get round to it.

Vera

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Could Alfred have been in the army in his early years? (Away from home? Refused permission to marry?)

Jay

[Rick]

Found Cousin John. That was a tempting one, her being a Hair Maker. Not seeing her as a Gallagher (variations of), Pike or even Flower in 1841 or young Edward.

Wondered if when asked about mother's maiden name, she gave her own mother's but not seeing a likely marriage between a Flower and a Gallagher.

Not sure why banns were read then no marriage then marriage much later on with both being recorded as bachelor/spinster at the time. Possible previous marriage for Marianne as a Flower to a Gallacher. Now I am rambling with nothing to back it up. Maybe just didn't get round to it.

Vera

Your thought processes are very similar to mine (sounds better than ramblings ). My instinct tells me there's an underlying reason for it. I did wonder if one party had married previously and that perhaps Edward wasn't even Alfred's son, but that was Alfred's father's name. My other thought was maybe it was to do with religion, as Alfred was not brought up in the Anglican church. But they would have been free to marry in a licensed non-conformist church at that time. It seems odd that they chose St Mary Islington (both times) as they certainly didn't live there. It may have had some significance to Marianne as she was born nearby in St Lukes according to the census

[Rick]

Could Alfred have been in the army in his early years? (Away from home? Refused permission to marry?)

Jay

I'm not sure he could have fitted in time in the army if you look at the timeline. There's no service record for him on FMP either.

[Fuzzy]

Hi Rick,

Have been bashing my head against the wall most of the afternoon with your Marianne. I have been unable to find her on the 1841 as a Gallagher or a Pike other than the one you found and discounted ( hair worker) I did find a Mary Ann Flower with a Francis Flower on the 1841, there was no occupation and I cannot find a Mary Ann Flower with Francis on the 1851 so I am assuming that they are maybe brother and sister and not married. I did find on the 1851 a Mary Ann flower born in 1820 in Middlesex with the Saunders family, she is down as niece but married so not your girl but definitely a connection there with the names as lilies family was Saunders. Not sure what it means but maybe a glimmer of light?! Hope I haven't muddled you further Rick.! I was unable to find the eldest child who would have only been 1 at the time. Tried all sorts of searches including trick you did earlier with my Kate but nothing for him

[Fuzzy]

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=Mary+Ann&gsln=Flower&msbdy=1820&msbpn__ftp=Middlesex&uidh=xie&pcat=CEN_1850&h=2333506&recoff=6+7+8&db=uki1851&indiv=1&ml_rpos=1

[Rick]

Thank you for trying Karen and thanks to everyone else trying to help too. I think there are more mysteries with this particular family than anywhere else in my tree. I'll take a look at the Saunders/ Flower connection to see if anything comes of it.

I have found a possible death for Marianne now in 1886 in Southwark as Marian Ann Pike and the right age.

[Fuzzy]

You very welcome Rick, good luck with it all. At least you know what happened to her in the end.

I may have to roll out William Henry reed again soon, he doesn't appear on any census, have no idea when or where he was born and cannot find a death for him!