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Hi.
This is my first request for advice and hopefully someone can advise me.
After two years of researching my family tree, I can pretty much find my way about the research side but I became stuck last year when trying to get to the bottom of what went on with my great grand father. The story, although this is going to be complicated to explain, I was told for many years that my great grand father Ambrose Burton Carter (1864 in Norfolk) died after breaking his back on the Railways in Altrincham and died 4 days later in 1911 and the children aged 7, 5, 3 and 1, including my grand mother Maud Alice Carter (married 1903) went into care/work house due to the fact my great grand mother was also 7 months pregnant. The family regrouped later and relocated in Chirk North Wales. This is the story we were all told.
I tracked Ambrose from his birth in 1864 in Norfolk, to residing with his parents now in London in the 1871 and 1881 census and then in 1891 he was a boarder and in that census he is with a wife Louisa Maud Carter and a son Louis Birt Carter aged 2, born Forest Gate 1888. States he was married. This was the first of many skeletons that I discovered. However, I was unable to find any marriage certificate or a birth certificate for the son Louis. Louis shows up on the 1891 and 1901 census forms as born 1888 in Forest Gate.
Now, in 1901 Ambrose and son Louis are in Altrincham, and he is noted on the census as a widower. I then got hold of the marriage certificate of my great grand mother and sure enough he was noted as a widower when he married my great grand mother in 1903. Ambrose's parents noted on the certificate were the same as I had and the birth place of Norfolk was correct, so I did have the right guy. What I could not understand is my great grand mother Maud Alice was buried in Chirk North Wales when she passed away in 1954, yet Ambrose is buried in Bowdon Altrincham. A relative has the original funeral invoice which gave the grave number of Ambrose plus a charge for removal of grave stone.
So now the 2nd skeleton. A further search brought up Louisa Maud Carter as died Jan 1901 and buried in Bowdon. I also found a record of a child Louisa Maud born the same day as the death of the mother. And the same census shows this child living three doors away with a Hanson family and noted as LOUISA MAUD CARTER ATOP DAUGHTER. Was it possible back then to just give children away?. A search of Church records showed that Ambrose did christen the child in March 1901. Church records also showed that Ambrose was in fact buried with Louisa Maud Carter (wife) in 1911, that's 8 years after he married my grand mother Maud Alice. That explained why my great grand mother is buried in Chirk. I also have copies of all Ambrose's children, and some state father as Ambrose BURTON but others say Ambrose ALFRED. As the story got complicated it appears tome that even my great grand mother, 2nd wife of Ambrose was planting seeds to deceive.
Ambrose was born in Norfolk. Lived in London from at least 1881 to 1891. 1901 he is in Altrincham. Married my great grand mother in 1903. My grand mother was born 1905 in London, sand so was the other children Arthur and John, but Margaret was born in Altrincham 1910. So some flitting about took place between London and Altrincham between 1891 and 1910, why he did so I have no idea.
I then pulled his death certificate, nothing about an injury, he died of heart failure and heavy metal poisoning with his wife in attendance. There are zero records of any railway injury and never worked for the railway, his father did though. So I have no idea why that story was told.
The issue I have had is I have been unable to find a marriage certificate for Ambrose and Louisa Maud, in fact Louisa Maud seems to never existed, although I didn't know her maiden name. Also no records either for the son Louis Birt Carter, no birth certificate. From 1901, the son Louis Birt then disappears from all records. No trace.
At this point my family were stunned by the revelation that Ambrose had been married before (or had he) to a Louisa Maud, had a son Louis Birt who has disappeared and a daughter Louisa Maud who was adopted. Not been killed on the railways but died of natural causes. I was also baffled why the middle name 'ALFRED' was used on a number of children birth certificates and on his burial register but used 'BURTON' on others.
So, after hundreds if not thousands of hours of research I have not been able to locate young Louis Birt after the 1901 census. I have been unable to find any marriage certificate for Ambrose and Louisa Maud. So on both of these points I was stumped. I then decided, after pulling my hair out, to employ a Genealogist. This was a great move because they discovered that the son Louis Birt Carter was in fact Louis Birt Allen, born 1888 in Forest Gate. Mother, Louisa Allen nee White, father Ambrose Burton Allen. Allen! Where the hell did tht come from?
My first question. The mother was the informant when she registered Louis Birt. Did she need to take some form of identification to register the birth and this is why she needed to lie and say Ambrose Burton was ALLEN not CARTER?. She was clearly married to someone called Allen. NO records exists of anyone called AMBROSE BURTON ALLEN. The reason the Genealogist is convinced it's the same Ambrose. I know divorce was not an option those days.
In documents that followed Luis Birt becomes Carter and no mention is made of Allen. That is when he disappears off my radar after 1901. I know he must of gone back to London because my grand mother was born there in 1905.
My second question. I have now located Army records for a Louis Birt Allen and he joined in 1908 and was living in London and he gives his father as Ambrose Burton Allen. This is the second time the Allen name comes up. My question is, it's 1908, six years before WW1. Did they have to again show identification then, unlike WW1 where they seemed to take anyone and possible to lie about your age. If that is the case and he showed his birth certificate, he had no option but to use the last name Allen?.
Sorry about the long complicated story, but for me it's been a fascinating one with I am sure even more truths to uncover. They say life was not complicated those days!
Thanks in advance.
Tony
This is my first request for advice and hopefully someone can advise me.
After two years of researching my family tree, I can pretty much find my way about the research side but I became stuck last year when trying to get to the bottom of what went on with my great grand father. The story, although this is going to be complicated to explain, I was told for many years that my great grand father Ambrose Burton Carter (1864 in Norfolk) died after breaking his back on the Railways in Altrincham and died 4 days later in 1911 and the children aged 7, 5, 3 and 1, including my grand mother Maud Alice Carter (married 1903) went into care/work house due to the fact my great grand mother was also 7 months pregnant. The family regrouped later and relocated in Chirk North Wales. This is the story we were all told.
I tracked Ambrose from his birth in 1864 in Norfolk, to residing with his parents now in London in the 1871 and 1881 census and then in 1891 he was a boarder and in that census he is with a wife Louisa Maud Carter and a son Louis Birt Carter aged 2, born Forest Gate 1888. States he was married. This was the first of many skeletons that I discovered. However, I was unable to find any marriage certificate or a birth certificate for the son Louis. Louis shows up on the 1891 and 1901 census forms as born 1888 in Forest Gate.
Now, in 1901 Ambrose and son Louis are in Altrincham, and he is noted on the census as a widower. I then got hold of the marriage certificate of my great grand mother and sure enough he was noted as a widower when he married my great grand mother in 1903. Ambrose's parents noted on the certificate were the same as I had and the birth place of Norfolk was correct, so I did have the right guy. What I could not understand is my great grand mother Maud Alice was buried in Chirk North Wales when she passed away in 1954, yet Ambrose is buried in Bowdon Altrincham. A relative has the original funeral invoice which gave the grave number of Ambrose plus a charge for removal of grave stone.
So now the 2nd skeleton. A further search brought up Louisa Maud Carter as died Jan 1901 and buried in Bowdon. I also found a record of a child Louisa Maud born the same day as the death of the mother. And the same census shows this child living three doors away with a Hanson family and noted as LOUISA MAUD CARTER ATOP DAUGHTER. Was it possible back then to just give children away?. A search of Church records showed that Ambrose did christen the child in March 1901. Church records also showed that Ambrose was in fact buried with Louisa Maud Carter (wife) in 1911, that's 8 years after he married my grand mother Maud Alice. That explained why my great grand mother is buried in Chirk. I also have copies of all Ambrose's children, and some state father as Ambrose BURTON but others say Ambrose ALFRED. As the story got complicated it appears tome that even my great grand mother, 2nd wife of Ambrose was planting seeds to deceive.
Ambrose was born in Norfolk. Lived in London from at least 1881 to 1891. 1901 he is in Altrincham. Married my great grand mother in 1903. My grand mother was born 1905 in London, sand so was the other children Arthur and John, but Margaret was born in Altrincham 1910. So some flitting about took place between London and Altrincham between 1891 and 1910, why he did so I have no idea.
I then pulled his death certificate, nothing about an injury, he died of heart failure and heavy metal poisoning with his wife in attendance. There are zero records of any railway injury and never worked for the railway, his father did though. So I have no idea why that story was told.
The issue I have had is I have been unable to find a marriage certificate for Ambrose and Louisa Maud, in fact Louisa Maud seems to never existed, although I didn't know her maiden name. Also no records either for the son Louis Birt Carter, no birth certificate. From 1901, the son Louis Birt then disappears from all records. No trace.
At this point my family were stunned by the revelation that Ambrose had been married before (or had he) to a Louisa Maud, had a son Louis Birt who has disappeared and a daughter Louisa Maud who was adopted. Not been killed on the railways but died of natural causes. I was also baffled why the middle name 'ALFRED' was used on a number of children birth certificates and on his burial register but used 'BURTON' on others.
So, after hundreds if not thousands of hours of research I have not been able to locate young Louis Birt after the 1901 census. I have been unable to find any marriage certificate for Ambrose and Louisa Maud. So on both of these points I was stumped. I then decided, after pulling my hair out, to employ a Genealogist. This was a great move because they discovered that the son Louis Birt Carter was in fact Louis Birt Allen, born 1888 in Forest Gate. Mother, Louisa Allen nee White, father Ambrose Burton Allen. Allen! Where the hell did tht come from?
My first question. The mother was the informant when she registered Louis Birt. Did she need to take some form of identification to register the birth and this is why she needed to lie and say Ambrose Burton was ALLEN not CARTER?. She was clearly married to someone called Allen. NO records exists of anyone called AMBROSE BURTON ALLEN. The reason the Genealogist is convinced it's the same Ambrose. I know divorce was not an option those days.
In documents that followed Luis Birt becomes Carter and no mention is made of Allen. That is when he disappears off my radar after 1901. I know he must of gone back to London because my grand mother was born there in 1905.
My second question. I have now located Army records for a Louis Birt Allen and he joined in 1908 and was living in London and he gives his father as Ambrose Burton Allen. This is the second time the Allen name comes up. My question is, it's 1908, six years before WW1. Did they have to again show identification then, unlike WW1 where they seemed to take anyone and possible to lie about your age. If that is the case and he showed his birth certificate, he had no option but to use the last name Allen?.
Sorry about the long complicated story, but for me it's been a fascinating one with I am sure even more truths to uncover. They say life was not complicated those days!
Thanks in advance.
Tony
) Grandad celebrated his birthday in NOVEMBER. I have always thought the registrar's error may have been due to too much Christmas spirit.
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