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  • Simon Winter

    Daniel Patrick Hunt married Ellen Winter on 30 May 1909 in a Catholic service at St Mary & St Michael's Church at St George in the East, Stepney. They were both 22, so born in 1887. Ellen's father is given as Simon Winter ("deceased"); his profession - tailor. Her mother was also Ellen.

    Can anyone find any trace of Simon Winter?
    People: Canton, Wiseman, Colthup, Scrace
    Places: Pembrokeshire, Kent.

  • #2
    Do you know that Ellen was born in this country? I'm just wondering if Simon Winter was eastern european (Jewish?) and maybe anglicised his name.

    OC

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    • #3
      Simon Winter aged 38, master tailor married Nellie Bryan in 1889.....http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/16...nSearchResults
      Rick

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      • #4
        Not a lot of Israel Winters around. Nellie is obviously a diminutive of Ellen. Ellen Hunt is Helen on the only Electoral Register I looked at. Her recorded age puts her birth before the marriage - maybe she is a Bryan ?
        Rick

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        • #5
          Or maybe she lied at marriage and was only 20 - a couple of Ellen Winter births in 1889. If she lied about her age, she might also have lied about her father being dead.

          OC

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
            Or maybe she lied at marriage and was only 20 - a couple of Ellen Winter births in 1889. If she lied about her age, she might also have lied about her father being dead.

            OC
            Yes, that's possible, but she is 24 on the 1911, so at least that's consistent. I'm with you on the Eastern Europe theory though - Jewish/East End/Tailor. I wonder how Webwiz knows the mother was Ellen ? Any more details - siblings or marriage witnesses for example ? There's an Ellen Bryan (of the right sort of age and place of birth) around on earlier censuses, with parents John & Ellen of Irish descent, which could be promising.
            Rick

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            • #7
              Thanks everyone. I had just the same findings and speculations. This is not my own family, I am enquiring on behalf of a friend who gave me the info in the opening post. She is focused on Simon rather than Ellen. I will probe her for more, but Simon seems to have arrived and departed leaving no trace.
              People: Canton, Wiseman, Colthup, Scrace
              Places: Pembrokeshire, Kent.

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              • #8
                webwiz

                If your friend gets Simon's marriage cert, there should at least be his father's name on it, which may be another clue to searching. Also Simon was 38 at marriage - rather late for a first marriage? His address on the marriage cert should also give somewhere to search in 1891, as a tailor is likely to stay where the work is.

                OC

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                • #9
                  The marriage certificate is on Ancestry - just follow the link above if you have a sub. Father is Israel, a furrier. Address 74 Bidford Street. Witnesses Charlotte Jones and George Jordan.

                  I do smell a rat here though. I've yet to find him on Ancestry, but on FMP there's a naturalised Russian tailor called Simon Winter, born about 1853 with a German wife Milly on the 1891 and 1901 census. There are 3 children, born Camberwell on the 1891, but the two still with them in 1901 are now born Shadwell, putting Simon in the Stepney area in the mid-to-late 1880s.
                  Rick

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                  • #10
                    The problem with Jewish research, as we have found on here (!) is that they changed their names at the drop of a hat, using different names to suit whatever circumstance they found themselves in, so Simon Winter could be Shamon Levy (or whatever).

                    (I don't think there's much doubt they are Jewish!)

                    OC

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