Conflicting information on certificates

[Gwyn in Kent]

Which certificates, if any, would you believe if births and marriages give different fathers, but circumstantial evidence points to another man?

My friend is researching Sarah Elizabeth RUDD and James BELCHAMBER who married in Whitby in 1883.

GRO has this marriage also as Thomas BELCHAMBER, but a local copy shows he signed James.

They supposedly had several children, but birth certificates show that no father was named for the 2nd and 4th born.

James is named again on the birth certificates of the next 3 children born in 1901, 1903 and 1906 even though these children all carry the forename PEARSON which just happens to be Sarah's lodger in 1901.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7814/YRKRG13_4558_4563-0418/29023287?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=YRKRG13_4558_4563-0417

Sarah refers to herself as married, but James( never with Sarah in a census ) is living at the home of his daughter Euphemia from his 1st marriage and says he is widowed.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7814/ESSRG13_1581_1583-0504/9025937?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26gsfn%3djames%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dbelchamber%26gsln_x%3dXO%26msbpn__ftp%3dDeptford%252c%2bKent%252c%2bEngland%26msbpn%3d1667521%26msbpn_PInfo%3d8-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%257c5270%257c1667521%257c0%257c%26uidh%3d161%26pcat%3d1901UKI%26h%3d9025937%26db%3duki1901%26indiv%3d1%26ml_rpos%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

[Guy]

To answer your questions you must first consider two points.

1: Is the certificate a photocopy of the original certificate or a transcript (or photocopy of a transcript) of the original certificate?

2: Who is the informant on the certificate?

If it is a transcript then there is no guarantee of accuracy. All GRO entries are transcripts due to the way the GRO gets the information.

If the local copy is a photocopy of the original marriage register and signed by the father the signature is almost certainly accurate (or at least contain a name he used at the time of signing).
If the local copy is a transcript of the original marriage register there may be an error with the name.

If the informant of the birth entries is the mother there is a possibility of an error
If the informant of the birth entries is the father the name is more likely to be accurate.

Cheers
Guy

[Gwyn in Kent]

Thank you Guy for your thoughts.

I don't have all the evidence to hand, as it is my friend's tree, but I know the marriage certificate of Sarah and James was a copy of the original register, as she wanted to establish whether or not he was the same James who had married Jane Maria HUNTLY in 1871.
He was ...and his signature as a witness at his brother's marriage firmly shows all these James to be the same person.

Sarah was the informant of all her children's births.
I am familiar with the situation of a separated married woman still having her husband shown as the father of her subsequent children, but the random naming or no name makes Sarah's situation difficult to assess. With James living in West Ham in 1901, it seems very doubtful that he is the father.

No child, at marriage, names Daniel PEARSON as their father.

Some name James, 2 name Benjamin BELCHAMBER ( We think this is a 'save face' name, possibly linked to Sarah's marriage to Benamin W.DICKINSON in 1917)
Sarah remarried as a widow, although James was in fact still alive.

Gwyn

[Olde Crone Holden]

My great great grandfather was a James and I was quite surprised to see that one of his sons named his father as Thomas. On closer inspection, he had said James, but the transcriber mistook the flowery writing for Thomas! (Try it and you will see that the outline of those two names is almost the same).

No father named on a birth cert to me implies that she either really didn't know who the father was, or she didn't wish to lie and say the child was her husband's (which she was entitled to do, as a married woman, so full marks to her for honesty!). She could not of course name the real father unless he weent to registration with her, or otherwise made a dclaration.

In these circumstances, I would take it that any father named on a marriage cert is a face-saver I'm afraid.

OC

[Gwyn in Kent]

OC
Yes, the flowery writing is probably the reason for the GRO ambiguity here.

I agree that Sarah was probably being honest, when she didn't state a father's name at the birth of her 2nd and 4th child, but why then would she name James for those after 1900, whose names at the very least hint at them being Daniel's children.

Surely he wan't just a kindly face in that household, so she named the children after him ? !!

Gwyn

[Olde Crone Holden]

(Struggling!) Perhaps it was down to the Registrar, who on some occasions asked "and are you living with your husband" and on others didn't ask!

I heard only recently about someone's grandma who was married and had seven children, all nice and respectable. Except somehow they knew that the husband was not their father - the marriage was one of convenience, covering for her life-time affair with a married man and covering for the "husband's" homosexuality (a crime in those days). Not suggesting this is your scenario but it just illustrates the oddities that life can throw up!

OC

[Gwyn in Kent]

Lol ...and how would they know that we'd go 'digging' and discover all this.

Friend is trying to write a story outline of this family, but every statement seems to need a paragraph of explanation.
Glad it's her tree and not mine, although it's been interesting helping the search for evidence.

Gwyn