Kinship terminology ..

[Elaine ..Spain]

Involved (elsewhere) in a lengthy discussion about whether one would use the term "great aunt" or "grand aunt".

Technically I believe "grand" shows that is it one generation away, and "great" is added to any subsequent generations.
for example:

• mother >>> grandmother >>> great grandmother
• aunt >> grand aunt >> great grand aunt

Does anyone have a definitive reference/link which confirms this is correct! Please. :D

[Caroline]

I never use grand!! So grandmother's sister is great aunt, great grandmother's sister is great great aunt etc. No idea if I am "correct" but that was what my grandmother used to describe our relations.

[Elaine ..Spain]

I agree that most people use "great aunt" rather than "grand aunt" but I think that is just how it has evolved.

I'm looking for a definitive reference ... the sort of thing that OC or Guy would normally come up with!

.. of course I might well be wrong!

[keldon]

The OED has great-aunt first recorded in 1525, defined as 'a father's or mother's aunt'. While grand aunt appears in 1830, defined as 'one's father's or mother's aunt; a great-aunt'. No definitive answer there although the quotations on the latter do not set out the exact relationship in generations.

[GallowayLass]

I've not got a definitive reference for you either Elaine but I use the same terminology as you do. My grandparent's siblings are my grand aunts and uncles; my great grandparent's siblings are my great grand whatevers. I've often sent off to local register offcies for certs where in the relationship to deceased person I have put great grand niece.

[GallowayLass]

I've just popped off to my FTM tree and run a relationship report on my Grandad's sister. I am her grandniece and my cousin's son is her great grand nephew.

As FTM is now owned by ancestry it might be worth you contacting them and asking where they got their reference from for the terminology that's built into the programme.

[JudithM]

Growing up in the 1950s (in England) we were taught to call my grandparents sisters and brothers great aunt and great uncle. The dictionary which has been in this house ever since I was a child also gives definition of great aunt as being a parent's aunt, and the Oxford English Dictionary also gives this definition for great aunt and n mention of grand aunt for grand aunt.

[JudithM]

I've just checked the Family Historian program and that also uses great aunt and great uncle rather than grand.. Could it be that the use of grand is more american, which in turn of course could mean that it was the original terminology in England as often US words and spellings have their origin in the English used by early settlers.

[Elaine ..Spain]

Family Tree Maker 2014 (UK version) uses the term great aunt. :(

[GallowayLass]

Family Tree Maker 2014 (UK version) uses the term great aunt. :(

I'm still on the wonderfulmarvellousluvverly old 2006; wonder when they made the change?

[LangleyValeSue]

FTM 2011 uses the term grand aunt so it was after that.
Don't know if it's UK version or not though. It was certainly bought in England.

[Olde Crone Holden]

I had never heard the expression "grand aunt" until I started using the internet! In my mind it is an American expression. Many of my great aunts were still alive in my childhood and they were Great Aunts, not Grand Aunts.

OC

[Guy]

The proper usage in English is great aunt grand aunt is simply a slang term adopted by the Americans.
The only people in English kinship to be denoted grand are grand parents, all others are great.

The confusion arises due to the arithmetic involved Grandparents are two steps removed from the individual
Individual, ˄ Parent, ˄ Grandparent
However a great aunt or uncle is three steps from the individual as the steps go to the grandparents then down to the aunt or uncle
Individual, ˄ Parent, ˄ Grandparent, ˅ Great Aunt

The Americans miss out the step to grandparent and go sideways from parent to “grand” aunt.
Cheers
Guy

[Elaine ..Spain]

Well thanks everyone for you input - very interesting! Seems I was wrong in thinking it was grand aunt, rather than great aunt! :(

[keldon]

In error

[herky]

It may be a regional thing too - outwith genealogy I have always called my grandad's siblings great aunt or uncle.
I have a friend from Orkney (does not do genealogy) and calls these family grand aunt and uncle.
It may be her individual term or one used in her area but not sure.
I will ask her when we are next in touch.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I'd never heard of grand aunt, until it cropped up in conversation with my mother out law, who is Irish by birth, as were all the grand aunts and grand uncles. Everyone else I know uses "great, great-great etc."

Jay