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Might anyone be able to check this record at Kew please?

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  • Might anyone be able to check this record at Kew please?

    I've had a brickwall for the last 30+ yrs in trying to trace my Grandfather, William James Wilson (1860-1937) prior to his Marriage to my Grandmother, Margaret Rees in Swansea in June 1893.

    On his Marriage Cert, and on the 1901 and 1911 Censuses for Swansea, he gives his place of Birth as 'Manchester, Lancs'. Father, 'William Wilson (Deceased) Occupation: Mason.

    William James Wilson was a Painter and Decorator. As he doesn't seem to show up on any of the Censuses before 1901, - I have taken a guess that he might have been in another trade or occupation.
    On the 1891 Census there is a:

    William Wilson, Lodger, Royal Marine, Aged 32, Single, Bn. Manchester, 1859/60

    Address.
    Mylor Bridge, Mylor, Cornwall. ( RG12 Piece 1833 Folio 41 Page 9 )

    There is a slim chance that he might be my late Grandfather, William James Wilson (1860-1937) Born Manchester.

    I've searched on the National Archives Site and paid and downloaded two records for William Wilson's, Royal Marines. Neither of them match my Grandfather's details.

    I've found another record, which has not been digitalised, and can only be viewed at Kew or ordered. I'm still not sure of course if I am on the right track at all... There is no DOB for this William Wilson, but he joined the Marines in 1875, - which could fit. His Service Record is 6 pages, and so it's going to be fairly expensive to order, - (especially if it's for the wrong William Wilson again:-(

    Might anyone who is going to Kew in the near future be able to take a look for me please?

    The record is in ADM/157/1898 and is for William Wilson, Royal Marine, Born Manchester, Joined up in 1875. What I am trying to ascertain is what his DOB is, and whether his Father & next of kin was William Wilson, Occupation: Mason.

    Hoping that someone will be able to help,
    Holly.

  • #2
    Viewed this Record, (and many other Royal Marine Records) at Kew yesterday.

    This William Wilson was a French Polisher before joining up in 1875, aged 18yrs. Born Salford, Lancs in 1857. No info given re: next of kin or home address.

    My conclusion is that this chap was not my Grandfather, William James Wilson, Born Manchester 1860/'61.

    I also looked through most of the other RM Attestation papers for the timescale concerned, but was unable to find the William Wilson serving on HMS Ganges moored off Mylor Bridge on the 1891 Census.

    Any ideas welcomed, - otherwise I shall give up on this line of research.

    Holly.

    Comment


    • #3
      Holly -
      You might ask a moderator to move this thread to the Research Advice section, or open a new thread there - it will get more attention.
      sarah

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by PhotoFamily View Post
        Holly -
        You might ask a moderator to move this thread to the Research Advice section, or open a new thread there - it will get more attention.
        sarah
        Thanks Sarah for the advice.
        I'm not sure how to ask for the thread to be moved, - does anyone on here know?

        Holly.

        Comment


        • #5
          Have moved it for you Holly.
          Elaine







          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
            Have moved it for you Holly.
            Many thanks Elaine.

            Holly.

            Comment


            • #7
              Do you know if William had any siblings?
              Kat

              My avatar is my mother 1921 - 2012

              Comment


              • #8
                One avenue to explore if you can get back to Kew (as it's a fairly labour intensive activity) is to look at the Description Books for the Royal Marines (there's information on the TNA website) .

                Whereas Attestation Papers or Service Records may not survive (for various reasons) the Description Books are a comprehensive record of all RM personnel. The reason it's a bit of a slog is that each RM Division (Portsmouth, Chatham, Plymouth) had separate sets of books and also they are in groups of year and by letter of the alphabet.

                However if you have a likely date range then just look at the particular books under W and try to ID all William Wilsons. The information contained does vary but should include date of joining and leaving including reason for discharge , physical characteristics, where born, occupation. While somewhat sparser information than you'd ideally like it can be sometimes the only information that exists for a particular person. If nothing else it may help to eliminate all possibilities (or leave you with one candidate)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post
                  Do you know if William had any siblings?
                  Unfortunately I have no information at all about whether he had any siblings or not.

                  I do remember my late Uncle, William Havelock Wilson, (1894 - 1974) telling me that as a boy he had stayed with relatives in Manchester, but he didn't mention any names...:-(

                  However, I am guessing that either William James Wilson's Mother or sister was an Alice, - because his third son, Ernest Rencella Wilson (1897 - 1957) was Registered as 'Alice' Rencella Wilson for the first three months of his life. (His gender and name were changed at that time, and a note made on the Birth Cert that this was ammended as a 'Clerical Error').
                  In line with Welsh naming patterns at that time, William James' first son was named for his father's father. The second son, Evan Douglas Wilson (1896 - 1957) was named for his mother's father, (Evan Rees).
                  There are no Alice's on the Rees side at all, and so I would imagine that name comes from the Wilson side.

                  Holly.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Many thanks for the further info on Royal Marines Bertie.

                    The only reason that I was looking at Royal Marines was because of the William Wilson RM on the 1891 Census. I had thought that it might explain why he didn't appear on any Census before 1901. However, that William Wilson was born in Manchester in 1857, although I was unable to locate him after 1891. (William James Wilson says that he's born Manchester 1860/61 according to the 1901 and 1911 Censuses).

                    It is very puzzling that I am completely unable to locate my Grandfather anywhere prior to his Marriage in Swansea in June 1893...:-(

                    Holly.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dont know if this is to do with your William Wilson ?
                      1881
                      there is a William Wilson Prisoner born abt 1840 in Newcastle on Tyne a Mason in Wormwood Scrubs ?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        1861
                        William Wilson a Mason born abt 1841 Manchester a Lodger living in Bowes Village Bowes Teesdale Durham

                        just looking for a William Wilson a Mason about the right age might be the thing to do
                        Last edited by Guest; 14-09-14, 00:20.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks for looking Val.

                          Yes, I've been all through the Censuses looking for a William Wilson, Mason. Because there seems to be a tradition of Wilson men having children later in life in this line, I've looked at birth dates from 1820 - 1840. I can't find one with a son, William James Wilson, Born 1860/'61, Manchester:-(

                          William James Wilson married into a Swansea family of Wesleyan Methodists, and so I've also looked at Lancashire Non Conformist Baptismal Records, but can't find a match...

                          Holly.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            dont forget he may not have used his middle name on the census records not everybody did, or he may be James one them ,will have another look later

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Val wish Id never started View Post
                              dont forget he may not have used his middle name on the census records not everybody did, or he may be James one them ,will have another look later
                              Yes, I've tried that Val...

                              (He's William J. Wilson on the 1901, and William James Wilson on the 1911. Funnily enough, on the 1911 he gives his full name, but he's only put one name each for his sons. Most of them, - apart from Richard and Archibald, had two).

                              The only reason that I can think of to explain his absence from the earlier Censuses is that he was in one of the Services, or abroad. (Ernest Rencella Wilson's middle name is Dutch I think?)

                              But why isn't he on the 1891 for Wales, - when he Marries there in 1893??

                              Holly.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I wonder if a Slate Quarrier could also be a Mason ??? if so
                                1891
                                William Wilson born abt1826 Morecambe Lancashire Slate Quarrier
                                with family including
                                Son
                                William James Wilson born abt1859 Lancashire

                                living in Old Kiln Kirkby Ireleth Ulverston Lancs

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  coincidently there is a death for a William Wilson in Jun quarter of 1893 Ulverston Lancashire born 1826 age 67
                                  Volume 8E
                                  Page 569

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    The problem with that William James Wilson is that he's still single and living at home on the 1911 census.

                                    Holly

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I should add... that until the 1911 Census became available, this family looked the most likely match. I ordered lots of Certs, and was convinced that I had found him.

                                      However, the 1911 shows that he is definately not my Grandfather. The William James Wilson in Kirkby Ireleth never Married/had no children/never left home/never worked as a Painter and Decorator/Died in Kirkby Ireleth.

                                      Thanks for looking though, - much appreciated.

                                      Holly.

                                      Comment

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