How do you record places that changed county?

[PeteW1959]

There are a lot of places in the UK, especially in the London area, that have changed the county they come under over the years.

Up until now I have tried to record the correct county for the time of the event e.g John Doe born Fulham, Middlesex 1854, died Fulham, London 1910

However this is becoming increasingly confusing, as census places of birth tend to (but not always) record the county at the time of the census, not the time of birth.

How does everyone else do it?

[Guest]

I put whatever the place name the record is recorded in ie Lambeth, London. unless I have the cert, then I put whatever address is on that.

[Olde Crone Holden]

I do too - as found at the time. So, born Rutland, that's what I record.

OC

[Guest]

the main reason I do it is because it might help with contacts as they are likely to have put the same info

[Olde Crone Holden]

Exactly, Val. That's why I record spellings "as found" as well, because it may lead to a contact.

In fact I had a fantastic breakthrough in my research by recording a birthplace with the WRONG spelling as found on census. I googled the WRONG spelling and came up with only one reference, a posting over 10 years old on Ancestry which led me to a descendant of the man - she knew what had happened to him after his second marriage, I knew what had happened to him before that, so our combined info filled out the man completely. As she was in australia, she had not realised the birthplace was spelled incorrectly.

If we had both corrected the birthplace it's unlikely we'd have found each other because it then became a well known place with thousands of inhabitants!

OC

[Guest]

ooh I dont go that far OC never really thought about that ? maybe I should ,but how amazing you found each other .

[Uncle John]

Family Tree Maker lets you create place-names and so that's what I do.

[grumpy]

I record their place of birth as it was at the time of birth. Parts of my ancestors were born in Dorset which became Devon a hundred odd years ago, but they are kept

as being born in Dorset.

[grumpy]

I record their place of birth as it was at the time of birth. Parts of my ancestors were born in Dorset which became Devon a hundred odd years ago, but they are kept

as being born in Dorset ( usually add a rider saying now Devon).

Please excuse the double posting, slip up on my part.

[PhotoFamily]

Ugh. It's difficult: sometimes it's a town-name-change - but it may be county, state, or country!

I'm assisting someone with ancestors from Russia, Prussia, Poland, and ?? - varying by when the question was asked, and the sometimes-limited understanding of the person doing the writing.

Watching my grandfather's birthplace in the census: Ireland, Free State of Ireland, then (incorrectly) Northern Ireland.

The United States didn't exist when some of my ancestors arrived here, but the town name didn't change

And I've seen some remarks that disliked referring to early Nova Scotia as part of Canada - and what about early Quebec?

No solutions here, just frustration.

[AntonyM]

I suppose what matters is that the place is clearly identifiable and traceable to the current place name - and that you are consistent in the records you keep.

One annoyance is the "inferred county" that Ancestry uses on the BMD indexes - I just looked at one record which was indexed as "Place - Edmonton, Inferred County - Hertfordshire, Oxfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Middlesex". A UK based user may appreciate how ridiculous that is, but my client in the USA who had looked at the entry herself was very confused indeed !

It is useful to know that the GRO rules for registering any event are to use the location as it is NOW, at the time of registration, not what is was historically. An example would be where a person has died and was born in somewhere that has changed name or governance since. So for example someone born in Ceylon in the 1920s and whose death is registered in the UK today would have their place of birth recorded on their death entry as Sri Lanka. This can also affect quite a lot of places in the UK which have changed counties in the various boundary changes over the years or often become part of London Boroughs.

[PeteW1959]

Thanks for the input folks.

I have always followed the rule of any facts should be recorded as written (the same rules that transcribers follow), and that is how I record information from censuses, but adding multiple sources to a single event (e.g. year of birth from several census returns, especially when the birth event can't be found) makes this difficult.

As I use Family Historian places can be managed as a separate entity, and when typing them in the box auto fills based on what I am typing. The problem with this is the places list has Fulham, Middlesex and Fulham, London in it, and logically the one that comes up first is London. This also goes against all I have ever been taught about data management; multiple names for a single entity!

When adding someone new into my tree from a census entry rather than the birth event (this is the usual way a spouse gets added and I then work backwards to the birth), I run into problems where they were born before the boundary changes; unless I remember all the boundary changes what do I enter it as? I have been going through my tree and I have a family of 11 children all born in the same place, but some in one county and some in another.

London is a particular problem (and probably other large cities such as Birmingham). Apart from places starting out as villages in counties, then transferring to the County of London (or the City of London or City of Westminster), they then went to London Boroughs, and those borough boundaries changing every few years it has become almost impossible to keep a consistent method of recording place names.

I have as a side project started to geo-reference places as I want to plot the geographical distribution and movements of my family. At least anyone looking at my research will have a grid reference to clear up any ambiguity!

[Uncle John]

And I've seen some remarks that disliked referring to early Nova Scotia as part of Canada - and what about early Quebec?

I have a family born in Upper Canada, which I've recorded.

[Uncle John]

London is a particular problem (and probably other large cities such as Birmingham). Apart from places starting out as villages in counties, then transferring to the County of London (or the City of London or City of Westminster), they then went to London Boroughs, and those borough boundaries changing every few years it has become almost impossible to keep a consistent method of recording place names.

I use the mapping facility in FTM to pinpoint places. Using the map coordinates I can see how far they did or didn't move.