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  • Territorial Army Records

    I wondered if it was possible to get hold of Territorial Army Records.

    The chap whose records I would like to get my hands on is William Foster (usually listed as W.G. Foster and sometimes erroneously as Walter Gordon Foster).

    He fought in the Boer War from 1898 - ? and went out to South Africa as a Territorial (3rd Vol Btn Royal Fusiliers) . I have the Boer War record and number (88994 - this appears to be his territorial number which he kept) but is there anything further to be had on territorial service outside of wartime? He transferred to the 2nd Imperial Light Horse in SA - also keeping the same number - unfortunately most of this record is medical in that his horse fell on him in battle and broke his leg. His medals were assigned to him as a Fusilier.
    I assume but do not know for sure that he went back to the Territorials after WWI - he also served as a Special Constable in 1926 during the General Strike (would this have been done under the aegis of the Volunteer Btn?)

    In 1917 the territorial numbers were altered but the Royal Fusiliers Territorial numbers were not altered (according to TNA) - William Foster had already been called up from the Territorials as a SgtCSM and had gone to Mons in 1914 and had been allocated a regular army number (12391) - these records were probably in the "burnt series" - they have certainly gone AWOL. He is not listed for an army pension so must have left the service before 1922 - he was still in in 1920 as a photo I have of him says "France 1920". He had, however, at some point following severe injury at St. Eloi transferred to the ASC - no change of regimental number - his rank was Captain but for a while it was "temp Major" because he was transferred to a military Mission in Washington to instruct in marksmanship (he was a an excellent marksman apparently and had instructed at the Royal School of Musketry during his time in the ASC and had also instructed in horsemanship ?where, at this time).

    He died in 1942 in Salisbury, Wiltshire, whilst serving with the Home Guard - these records have also gone AWOL.

    Basically, I would like to get hold of the Territorial Records if they are available.

    Sue

  • #2
    It might be worth searching the national archives http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/r...-1769-1945.htm
    Vonny

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Vonny,

      I gather that it is possible to get Territorial paperwork from the TNA site - I have not managed to find what I want but in the process of bumbling around the site I found something related to his father that I didn't know about - got directed to FMP by TNA and since I had some points left copied what I needed............not altogether a fruitless search.

      Sue

      Comment


      • #4
        Have a look at the TNA Research Guide here

        The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
        Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

        Comment


        • #5
          Many thanks for that - I see it is alphabetical which is helpful and am working through the alphabet BUT is there any quick way of getting into "F"? If there is I cannot find it. I have to admit to not being very good with TNA set up.

          Sue

          Comment


          • #6
            Which ref are you trying to search?
            The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
            Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

            Comment


            • #7
              Wo 374

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              • #8
                Just put Foster in the exact search box and WO374 as the ref to search. Badly indexed though, although I know they have made a start in adding fuller descriptions details, but don't know whether they've done them all
                The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
                Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for that - managed to get in.
                  There is one only, sadly, (Capt. Foster QM W - he is a Quarter Master Weapons) which I have previously seen at the Archives and this is not him.
                  I also have realised that although he was a Volunteer (RF) from c1896 (i.e. age 16) when he went off to 2nd AB War he entered the Royal Fusiliers as a Sergeant/QM so I think it is unlikely, as a non-officer, he will be listed even as a Volunteer.

                  Are Pension Records useful (if they exist and I have no idea whether they do or don't in this case as I don't know when he was discharged as there are a few odd things about his service from 1916 onwards i.e. wounded St. Eloi, transferred to ASC, served as Weapons Instructor at RS of Musketry, Hythe and served ?where as Instructor in Horsemanship and oddest of all seconded to British Military Mission in Washington as a Temporary Major (for pay purposes only) and ?possibly but not confirmed, sent to Canada from there.

                  Thanks for your help. Sue

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Might be worth searching the other series of Officers Files - WO339. Again, poorly indexed although you can eliminate some by downloading the appropriate WO338 index which is available free from the National Archives - it's digital microfilm
                    The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
                    Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Please can someone advise me:

                      I have found on TNA site (after days of solid searching and square eyeballs) what may be the MIC of the long searched for William Foster:


                      Reference:
                      WO 372/7/127755

                      Description:

                      Medal card of Foster, William

                      Corps

                      Regiment No

                      Rank

                      London Regiment 13 Colour Serjeant
                      London Regiment 250005 Quartermaster Serjeant
                      Army Service Corps 250005 Quartermaster Serjeant
                      Royal Army Service Corps Temporary Lieutenant


                      Date:
                      1914-1920

                      Held by:
                      The National Archives, Kew

                      Legal status:
                      Public Record

                      I note that it gives me what must be his "long number". The information fits him perfectly but probably fits many others also. I have not as yet paid to download the MIC card on TNA but wonder if it would give me the "short number" even if I did - perhaps the number I have IS the short number? Does anyone know?

                      Also, does anyone know .............. my TNA readers card has recently expired - since I shall not be handling the very old documents in the upstairs area of TNA, can I, without renewing card, just go in and search? Can this search be done on long number if short number not available.

                      Worryingly, this info I have gained does not give his known awards i.e. MC, DCM which he gained in the Royal Fusiliers (as far as I know).

                      Sue
                      Last edited by Sue1; 12-02-15, 12:54.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You need the long number - not on medal card.

                        There are 2 series of Officers files WO374 and WO339. There's an index in WO338 which you can download the appropriate Alphabetical file from the National Archives site for free (it's Digital Microfilm) If he's there, long no should be given. It's then a case of finding the right file, if there is one, in the Catalogue. If he's not there, you need to search the Catalogue. WO339 is now fairly well indexed, but WO374 not so good - a man might just be listed as W Foster, with rank,with no further details, for example

                        Now I've typed this, have looked back through the thread and seen I've given this info to you before!
                        Last edited by annswabey; 12-02-15, 13:54.
                        The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
                        Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sue

                          The image of the Medal Card is on Ancestry. It won't let me save for some reason, but the dataset is said to be free.

                          This one may not be yours. He went to France 6 Jan 1915; there is a note about forfeiting medals and another later about a Court Martial and being cashiered.

                          Have tried to upload a screen image here. FosterWm MedalCard.jpg

                          Carol
                          Last edited by Carol Bird; 12-02-15, 14:02. Reason: wrong image

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks Ann, Sorry for being thick - I am truly struggling with TNA website - I dislike it intensely in fact and I am on day 3 of searching all day!

                            Carol, Many thanks for that - I have seen this one and sincerely hope it isn't him. Am researching with a Wiltshire Historical Society (William Foster died there in the Home Guard and is remembered in their church as he lived there) - all have been searching for a long time now. Persistence is obviously the name of the game!

                            One thing I do find curious is that better people than I have looked for this record - way back in 1958 apparently - I am pretty sure they never found it.
                            Later, someone else researched and found what they though was him - it turns out not to be.
                            The George Cross Society have asked me what I know about his WWI service - they obviously couldn't find it.
                            I have looked very recently at the researches (names only) of the people who gained honours, by Lord Ashcroft .............I notice William Foster is not included - perhaps they had the same trouble as I did.
                            William Foster was the oldest recipient of the GC.

                            The answer to all of this may of course be that he is the man in the MIC that you added!

                            Sue
                            Last edited by Sue1; 12-02-15, 16:38.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Had a quick look but can't see a file for him. Are you sure he was in ASC? Is there any chance he served after 1922 and file therefore still with the MOD?
                              The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
                              Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                File not with MOD - paid for a search for files several years ago - both War Record and Home Guard file - nothing forthcoming sadly. The problem is that I don't think he was an Officer until he went to the RASC. Have found letter from 2nd daughter of his to someone who was looking for his record and it states that "father transferred to RASC for promotion". It doesn't follow of course that he actually got it.
                                There was a Coroners Inquest on his Home Guard death and I wouldn't be surprised if both War Record and Home Guard record were pulled for this - I know the Coroner insisted on visiting the site where the incident occurred - bet the files were never returned.

                                Sue

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Home Guard record was to be my next suggestion, so thwarted again! I assume you've checked the records on Ancestry/FMP for any records for him before he was (possibly) commissioned?
                                  The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
                                  Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I have checked ancestry fully but not FMP in any depth - checked fmp by buying credits a long time ago but now the website has changed I find it incredibly frustrating. Clearly not very skilled.
                                    Tomorrow I plan to check TNA for WO374 and WO339 etc - will obviously have to check them for nco's and officers.
                                    The other place I checked (before I realised he had almost certainly changed Regiments) was the Territorials at the Tower of London who were extremely helpful but could not find him - I had read somewhere that Territorial records were often returned to the Territorial Unit.
                                    Army Service Corps is an enormous Regiment and I have tried to work out which section he is likely to have been sent into (although the army is not always predictable!) and I suspect "horses" as he was a skilled horseman and when he fought in the 2AB war he transferred whilst in SA to the 2nd Imperial Light Horse and as a child he grew up in Epping Forest where he learned his horsemanship skills. The other thing is possibly "weapons" and also possibly "transport" as he worked for GNR all his civilian working life.
                                    His last rank I definitely know of is CSM QM.
                                    It is strange that he has exactly the same awards as the chap I had him confused with i.e. W.G. Foster but one thing is different - in the last 18 months or so his medal ribbons have been found (my sister-in-law thought they were some kind of pretty embroidery and I asked her to photo them ...........and there they were). He does have a territorial excellence medal entitlement. I have also been told very recently that he was presented with a "Silver ?medal" by the Tsar of Russia - no idea what that was all about. I have had the medal ribbons identified - the main ones are MC, DCM but also a lot of others. There is the Mons Star on the first coloured bit - presumably the MC - there are also a couple of oakleaves. I haven't yet identified a website where I can check "awards" by name.
                                    Tomorrow is another day ..............Sue
                                    Last edited by Sue1; 12-02-15, 22:34.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Ann

                                      I haven't done FMP as yet but will do.
                                      TNA search has revealed a long number - 244359 - W. Foster - had been in 3btn of RF and transferred to ASC as a 2nd Lt. (I searched WO338/7/19 for the above). This is definitely not what I wanted to find but I had a horrible feeling I would. This entry has the long no. which has been bracketed and in front of it the numbers 70.787.
                                      The last number brings up nothing revealing whatsoever - appears totally unrelated and probably is not a TNA number at all but a military number. Without going into detail is it possible for me to research what happened to the soldier with the long no. 244359. Also the medal ribbons of my chap exist although the medals do not!!! I get the impression that he either transferred in 1917 to ASC or was made an Officer then.

                                      I have found a couple of others - one I ordered a few months ago WO374/25230 Captain and QM W - I thought his initial had been missed out and added at the end but the "W" stood for "Weapons" and the record was definitely not him.

                                      The other one is WO374/25229 Lieut W - gives a reference for his "former department" of 1352.

                                      Sue
                                      Last edited by Sue1; 13-02-15, 17:28.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Sue,
                                        You may already have all this info, but in case not, and this adds anything to your pool of knowledge ...
                                        Carol

                                        SECOND SUPPLEMENT TO The London Gazette Of TUESDAY, the l&th of FEBRUARY, 1915 (from Gazette site)

                                        War Office, 17th February 1915:
                                        The following dispatch has been received by the Secretary of State for War from the Field-Marshall-Commanding-in-Chief, British Forces in the Field:

                                        14th January 1915
                                        My Lord,
                                        In accordance with the last paragraph of my dispatch of 20 November 1914, I have the honour to bring to notice names of those whom I recommend for gallant and distinguished service in the field.
                                        I have the honour to be
                                        Your Lordship’s most obedient Servant,
                                        J.D.P.FRENCH

                                        1660 SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 17 FEBRUARY, 1915.
                                        4TH BATTALION, ROYAL FUSILIERS.
                                        McMahon, Lieutenant-Colonel (temporary Brigadier-General) N. R., D.S.O. (killed in action). Mallock, Major T. R., D.S.O. Ashburner, Captain L. F., M.V.O., D.S.O. Carey, Captain L. W. Le M. Forster, Captain H. C. Thomas-O'Donel, Captain G. O'D. F. Cooper, Lieutenant O. S. Steele, Lieutenant F. W. A. Maclean, Second Lieutenant C. T., 7th Battalion (attached). • Crabb, No. 7799 Company Serjeant-Major T. H. Foster, No. 12391 Acting Company SerjeantMajor W. G. Greenhill, No. 13745 Serjeant G. F.

                                        Right Number, wrong initials

                                        Ancestry: UK, Citations of the Distinguished Conduct Medal, 1914-1920 (from Ancestry site)

                                        12391 CSM W,G. FOSTER, 4th Bn Royal Fusiliers
                                        For conspicuous zeal and devotion to duty throughout the war. (30,6,15)

                                        Foster WG MedalRoll.jpg

                                        Foster WG MedalCard.jpg

                                        Foster WG MedalCard2.jpg

                                        Foster WG MedalCard3.jpg

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