Recording Occupations from Various Census

[AlanF]

Hi,

I hope that this may be the right place to pose this question, but if not I'm sure someone will tell me.

Having just gone back to FTM and upgraded to the 2014 edition, I would just like to ask for ideas concerning best practice in recording 'occupations' of any individual, if that individual appears in several Census years, and likely has a different occupation?

I know that you can customise the Details panel, but as far as I can see that only gives you one 'occupation'. How do some of you good folks who are more familiar with FTM record occupations given the scenario I have described? Add a note, enter the occupation in the description field of the 'Residence' box, or some other way?

Ideally I would like the information to be fairly visible, without having to poke around too much trying to find it.

I await your thoughts with interest.

Regards,

Alan

[Elaine ..Spain]

If I have found the information on a census, then I add it in the description box for the CENSUS fact, so my census fact reads something like:
Date: 1881
Place: 3 Calvert Road, Greenwich
Description: Occ. Engineer

If I have found an occupation elsewhere (e.g. from a BMD certificate) then I add it as an OCCUPATION fact. You can have more than one OCCUPATION fact should you wish.

[PeteW1959]

I use Family Historian so this may not be possible in FTM, but I record each occupation as an OCCUPATION fact, and set it's source as the census.

Occupation: Labourer
Date: 3 April 1881
Place: Hammersmith
Source: 1881 England Census RG11-54 F89 P39

There is a free program Ancestral Sources by Nick Walker that has been written to use alongside Family Historian that records it this way. As it writes directly to the GEDCOM it should be compatible with any family tree software that uses the GEDCOM standard.

http://www.ancestralsources.com/

[Elaine ..Spain]

Pete, you can do exactly the same on FTM by using the OCCUPATION fact.

[AlanF]

Thank you Elaine and Pete for your kind replies, I am grateful for your advice.

I imported my existing Ancestry Tree into the new 2014 version of FTM, and the Occupation question I asked in my initial post was the first thought that occurred to me.

Ancestry titles the fact as 'Residence', and I don't suppose it matters all that much, as I understand what it implies, but just so I fully grasp this, is it possible to edit that title, and call it Census instead? That being said, I see in the Individual & Shared Facts individual person detail the Add (+) Fact dropdown provides for adding either, an additional Resident or Census fact. If I try to change the label to Census might it confuse things, especially if I sync 'from' Ancestry 'into' FTM, or indeed the other way?

If I may also ask, the list of Facts presented in the individual person detail are presented alphabetically, as:

Baptism:
Birth:
Death:
Residence: (1841-1911 where relevant)

and then the Marriage 'shared fact'

I know there is the Timeline view, but is there any way in FTM of sorting these in actual 'Date' order in the Facts listing?

I don't want to stray too far from my initial question, but in the Residence (or Census) fact, does FTM have a way of automatically adding the fact showing the actual day/month/year (not just the year), or would this have to be done manually each time if I wanted to show the actual date on which the Census was taken?

By the way, Pete, I can't see how Ancestral Sources can be made to work with FTM. If you or anyone else does know that it can I would be happy to hear.

I guess that's enough for now.

Thanks again,

Alan

[DavidNewton]

Alen

Ancestral sources is designed for Family Historian where the native file format is GEDCOM. It can also work with a GEDCOM directly. As regards FTM this would mean that you would have to export your data as a GEDCOM, then use Ancestral Sources and then import the new GEDCOM. I do not know if this will work but from my experience of importing and exporting GEDCOMs I will be (pleasantly) surprised if nothing goes wrong.

David

[Elaine ..Spain]

Alan - are you using the range of preset FACT titles available - there are a number of which RESIDENCE, CENSUS, OCCUPATION are all separate facts.

When I add a census fact I use the CENSUS fact heading - add the year in the date box, the address in the place box and the occupation in the description box - example below





As you add the facts they appear on the Individual & Shared facts page in chronological order - example below (with three dummy RESIDENCE examples added so you can see!)

[PeteW1959]

Sorry, I didn't realise FTM isn't based on a GEDCOM.

Using GEDCOM as the native format was one of the main reasons I chose Family Historian.

[AlanF]

Elaine,

I am sorry if my explanation maybe has caused a little confusion, no doubt it's down to my lack of experience with FTM etc.., but then I guess you have to start somewhere.

I see what you say about presets, and how that is coming about is because I imported my Tree from Ancestry where it seems that Residence is the default label. By way of example when I have searched in a particular Census year for person X, found information containing person X, his wife and children, saved it to person X (with Census image), the detail then appears in Ancestry with the Residence label as I mentioned. At the end of such editing I have synced the Tree from Ancestry into FTM, and lo and verily behold the label Residence also appears in person X's FTM detail panel.

Another way that the same thing happens is when I click on the 'leaf' hint, and am presented with several 'possible' facts, and having checked that the information between the 'hint' and what I may have on my tree is correct, I then click on the 'Save to your Tree' button, again the Residence label is what appears in person X's information.

Having done what I have just described, I cannot see, in Ancestry, where I can change that existing Residence Fact label. If there is a way to do it differently and I'm just not seeing it please let me know.

Ninety-Nine percent of what I have done has been done in Ancestry first, then synced with FTM - maybe that methodology is not helping. Would it make any difference to work 'from' FTM to Ancestry?

I'm sorry if all this is adding to the confusion, but I welcome your thoughts.

Regards,

Alan

[Elaine ..Spain]

Alan, I now understand your problem!

Not that it helps you but there was a similar problem when Family Tree Maker developed their software from the 2006 edition to the new style (still used today) 2008 edition. Migrating from one to the other meant that certain data fields had to be amended manually to fit the new style!

I'm a long term user of FTM and have to say I have always worked from FTM rather than Ancestry. Also I never attach records/documents/images etc. direct from Ancestry to FTM - I much prefer to seek out the information on Ancestry, transcribe it myself and add it manually. It may seem a rather long winded method but at least I know I am getting an accurate transcription and can add my own source citations rather than add the automatic source data from Ancestry which at times I have found to be rather convoluted! I'm not a great fan of the green leaves either!

I suppose my style of research and use of FTM stems back many years (10+) when the option of linking to Ancestry for research and hints was not part of the software package - and I've just continued with that over the years.

I am not aware of any way you can change the fact labels in Ancestry.

I think you need to decide which way is going to work for you. Either continue to work in Ancestry and accept the shortcomings of the facts when downloaded to FTM - or start working from FTM and depending how many people you have in you tree working through systemically and correcting/amending the fields where the data facts appear to be misplaced.

Personally I feel FTM has more to offer than Ancestry in the way of publishing facilities, e.g. charts, reports etc., so my preference and advice would always be to work from FTM.

[PeteW1959]

I would always recommend using the tree you have on your PC as the master, and upload to Ancestry, GenesReunited etc.

As a Family Historian user I don't have the facility of direct linking, but like Elaine I started this before the facility for putting a tree online was available anyway, unless you had your own website.

To me the big advantage in keeping a local copy as master is that you don't have to upload everything to Ancestry. I upload a gedcom every month or so purely as a point of contact, just in case someone is researching the same people I am. I upload the core of my tree (direct lines) and any branches I am stuck on, and leave out living people; not uploading them is the only 100% secure way of keeping them hidden!

Having my tree locally also allows me to 'pencil in' people I am not 100% certain of without publishing potentially erroneous data to the internet. It can sometimes help to follow a line you aren't sure of to see if there are further connections a couple of generations on (it isn't unusual to find a proven ancestor living with what at first appears to be an unconnected family).

As Elaine says, FTM (or any family history software) has so many more facilities than the online versions, so you are missing out on a whole load of useful tools by not keeping your master copy locally.

[AlanF]

Hi Pete & Elaine,

I am so grateful for your help and advice. Whatever software I use, or online resource (principally Ancestry) it seems that the key is transcribing whichever record I am researching before I enter it into my laptop based local master. I confess that Ancestry has been very useful to me (although it does come in for some criticism in some quarters). The local Derbyshire Record Office is only severn miles away from where I live, but although I do visit there from time-to-time, regular visits are not always possible due to other committments that I have. Hence the fact that I have tended to rely on Ancestry and also Find My Past, and occasionally Family Search, certainly for a good portion of my research.

The thing that drew me to FTM was the ability to sync information with the Ancestry online version of my tree. Admitedly, from the 'hints' that can be seen on Ancestry there has been quite a lot of wrong connections made by some, but I am reasonably confident that I have not fallen into the trap of accepting wrong information.

Unfortunately I am not in the position to be able to afford to purchase certificates for every instance of a Birth, Marriage, or Death, but I do have a few. I know to have these certificates is ideal, but sadly for me, not always possible.

All that being said, the orginal question I posed about 'Recording Occupations on Various Census' has been well answered by you both, and along the way you have given me a lot to think about as to how I proceed from here. No doubt you will be hearing more from me.

You do seem a friendly and helpful lot on this forum, so passing on the benefit of your experience is especially useful to me, many thanks once again.

Regards,

AlanF