Thomas Gilkes 1861

[Katarzyna]

Sorry this is a bit long winded.

Thomas Gilkes (bap 25/5/1823 Napton, Warwickshire) married Emma Sanders (b c1828 Banbury, Oxfordshire) in Banbury Oct 1843.
They had 3 children -John 1845, Kate 1852 and William 1854
For ref :
1851 Banbury
HO107 Piece:1734,Folio:317, P:16
1871 Banbury
RG10 Piece:1464, Folio:5, P:1 Emma is a Widow
1881 Banbury
RG11 Piece:1527, Folio:10, P:13, Emma with daughter Kate Walkley and family

However 1861 shows Thomas's wife as Ann not Emma, Kate as son Rate and an ELLEN HONE as daughter (servant) b 1845 same as son John.
1861 Banbury
RG9 Piece:919, Folio:108, P:19

The only other ref I can find for Ellen Hone is with her mother Johanah - a widow on 1851
HO107; Piece: 1734; Folio: 321; P: 25

My questions - Am I reading too much into this? a) Ann is really Emma?? b) Ellen is a servant in the household and nothing to do with Thomas and Emma ?? or c) Could Ellen be Thomas's daughter?
Thanks for any help.

[Darksecretz]

I think it is a case of names getting muddled Kat, on Thomas' probate it states that EMMA is his widow

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1904/31874_222752-00068/4148509?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dUKProbateCal%26h%3d4148509%26indiv%3dtry%26o_vc%3dRecord%253aOtherRecord%26rhSource%3d8767&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Name: Thomas Gilkes
Probate Date: 1 Jun 1863
Death Date: 9 Feb 1863
Death Place: Oxford, Oxfordshire, England
Registry: Oxfordshire, England

[Katarzyna]

Thanks Julie, don't know why I never found that!!

Can anyone help with Ellen Hone?

[Frazzled]

Could be wrong but there is a Joanna Hone married to William with children Lydia, John and Daniel in Banbury in the 1841 census.
Joanna/Johanah is born in Banbury in the 1851 so could she be a relative of Emma Sanders? Can't find a link to prove that but there are 3 William Hone's who die in 1849 to 1850 and Joanna dies in 1859 so Ellen is a orphan. So she could either be their servant or they have taken her in as she is related.

Sorry couldn't find a link to prove this.

[Katarzyna]

You could be right I took a while finding Joanna on Ancestry this morning - mistranscribed as THone.
I have put her tentatively as a sister to Emma Sanders but I have been stuck finding parents for Emma for a while.
Thanks for this.

[Darksecretz]

You could be right I took a while finding Joanna on Ancestry this morning - mistranscribed as THone.
I have put her tentatively as a sister to Emma Sanders but I have been stuck finding parents for Emma for a while.
Thanks for this.

hmm do you have a father for Emma at all Kat? just wondered if we could possibly find a bapt/marriage for Joanna which would giver her MN as Sanders..

[Darksecretz]

Thanks Julie, don't know why I never found that!!

Can anyone help with Ellen Hone?

praps it hadn't been added the last time you looked at this family?.. dunno.. sometimes it is much easier to find other peoples info rather than your own

[Darksecretz]

just spotted that you don't appear to have Emma in 1841.. have you been looking? I see that she married in 1843 do you have that cert? [or is it on FreeBMD]?

[Darksecretz]

just spotted that you don't appear to have Emma in 1841.. have you been looking? I see that she married in 1843 do you have that cert? [or is it on FreeBMD]?

could this be Emma in 1841, it is very tempting to think so, as she is in the right area for Thomas as well, but her POB is stated as Warwickshire.. [though I suppose this could be wrong, but, another avenue praps?]

1841:http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...v=1&ml_rpos=26
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1138; Book: 12; Civil Parish: Napton On The Hill; County: Warwickshire; Enumeration District: 26; Folio: 29; Page: 2; Line: 9; GSU roll: 464177.

[Katarzyna]

I have Emma on 1841 living virtually next door to future spouse Thomas Gilkes in Napton, Warwicks.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/WARHO107_1137_1139-0307/10904358?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1841%26h%3d10904358%26ti%3d5538%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_t69347367_p44197504750_kpidz0q3d44197504750z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&ssrc=pt_t69347367_p44197504750_kpidz0q3d44197504750z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&backlabel=ReturnRecord#?imageId=WARHO107_1137_1139-0307

This says she was b i c ie Warwickshire BUT all other censuses give b Banbury, Oxford - admittedly only 17miles from Napton.
Unfortunately she is not with parents.
btw she cannot be sister to Johanah Hone as Johanah was born c 1803 whereas Emma was born 1828 but possibly a relationship somewhere.
I only have the ref (FREEBMD)for Emma's marriage to Thomas.

This is a friend's tree so I would have to ask her to get the cert if we don't get any further.

Edit - I see we've cross posted! Thomas is on the next page near the top lhs.

[Darksecretz]

yep.. I see what you mean Kat.

she could be a sister to Emma's mum though.. [Susannah I mean.. ]

[Darksecretz]

yep.. I see what you mean Kat.

she could be a sister to Emma's mum though.. [Susannah I mean.. ]

not thinking!! Johanah I meant!!

[Frazzled]

At familysearch there is an entry for an Emma Saunders christened 29/4/1827 in Banbury parents John and Catherine, source C026393.
If you look at the source there are 4 more entries showing possible siblings with the same parents but with the surname Sanders.
Unfortunately I can't find a marriage between a John Sanders and a Catherine so (annoyingly) still can't see if there is a link with Joanna/Johanah

[Katarzyna]

Yes, I saw the Emma christening but like you - no marriage. Thanks for the other Sanders entries - will take a look at those.