Finding their full name

[matilda1]

Hi, I am new to this. I have found a death record for a potential ancestor but for their middle name they have just the letter. How can I find out what their middle name is, I don't want to purchase the certificate and find it has the wrong middle name. Any suggestions please.

[Gwyn in Kent]

I take it that you know what the middle name should be ?
If that is the case, you may get lucky if you phone the office where the death was registered. They won't offer information usually, but I have known some to be helpful in confirming given information, so that one can tell whether it is likely to be the correct certificate.

Would you like to give a few details so that we could look for the person in census etc.?

Gwyn

[Richard in Perth]

What year was the death? You may be able to find a burial record online, depending on the location. You may also be able to get the middle name from electoral rolls and or probate index - again, this depends on the year and location. Also, some local register offices will happily give you this information for free via a phone call or email. Some of the local BMD sites even have the full middle names in their index. Why not put the details that you have on here and see what we can find?

[Elaine ..Spain]

You might be able to cross reference the date of death registration with other records, such as a parish register burial entry, probate calendar, newspaper entry etc.
You may find that the entry appears in the UK local BMD index and may include the middle name.

If you want to give the details of the entry you are looking at perhaps we can help.

[matilda1]

The name is Frederick James Kendall, born 1882 in West Ham, London. There is a death record registered in Dec 1958, registration district Essex South Western. Family members say this is my fathers in laws dad but his birth certificate states father unknown. I also found another death record for Frederick James as being killed in action in 1915 in Gallipoli and this Frederick James was from West Ham. My husband visited his nan regular as a child but never met his grandad and he was never mentioned. This is a bit of a mystery.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Are the birth details, 1882 in West Ham, taken from the GRO index? How do you know this is your man?

Jay

[matilda1]

He married Emily Ridgewell and was born in West Ham. All the details so far are correct but the death. My fatherinlaw gave me the details of his parents but he has now passed away and my husband said he and his siblings used to visit his nan often but never saw his grandad.

[Richard in Perth]

I can't find a probate or burial record for the 1958 death, but the only Frederick J Kendall birth that seems to fit with it is this one, which I presume is your man:

Births Dec 1882
Kendall Frederic James W. Ham 4a 85

There is another Frederick James born the next year in Southampton, but that one seems to have died the same year as an infant so I think you can discount him. I can't find a likely birth for the one who died at Gallipoli - unfortunately there is no age given in the CWGC record which doesn't help, but as a private he was likely to have been in his twenties, so possibly born 1890's. Nothing obvious on FreeBMD though.

I presume your Frederick married Emily Redgewell in 1904? There is an Edward Kendall (mmn Redgewell) born in West Ham in 1925, which would tend to suggest that Frederick was still around after WW1, though of course if Emily had had an illegitimate child after Frederick had either died or left her, then this child would be registered as Kendall mmn Redgewell in any case, so that is not definitive. Maybe in this case you will just have to get the death cert, unfortunately.

[Richard in Perth]

Was Edward your late father-in-law? If so, my gut feel is that Emily had Edward by person unknown after Frederick had "shot through", hence why no father is named on Edward's birth cert. Therefore, Frederick who died in 1958 may well have been Emily's former husband, but he was quite possibly not Edward's father. There is a big gap between the previous child Thomas (born 1913) and Edward (1925) which tends to support this.

[matilda1]

The one that died in Gallipoli assuming he is my one would have been 33 years old. The one in 1958 says his birth is about 1883 a year later, also I have just found a birth for a Frederick James in 1883 in Sible Hedingham, Essex. It does look as though I will have to get the death certificate.

[Richard in Perth]

Another thing - if Frederick had died at Gallipoli, he would have been a war hero and most definitely would have been talked about by the family. The fact that he was never talked about supports the theory that he may have just left her.

[matilda1]

Yes he is. I can only find one Frederick born in West Ham in 1882 and the Frederick that was killed came from West Ham which is a possible.

[Richard in Perth]

Yes but the year of birth is only estimated from the age at death. His birth was registered December quarter of 1882, and death registered December quarter of 1958:

Births Dec 1882
Kendall Frederic James W. Ham 4a 85

Deaths Dec 1958
KENDALL Frederick J 75 Essex S.W. 5a 153

So, for example he could have been born in December 1882 and died in October 1958, just before his 76th birthday. In any case, it is not unusual for the age at death to be a year or two out - it depends on how well informed the informant actually was!

[Richard in Perth]

The one from Sible Hedingham (reg district Halstead) was a Frederick Richard J, and he was born 1884:

Births Jun 1884
Kendall Frederick Richard J Halstead 4a 521

[Chrissie Smiff]

I agree with Richard that, looking at all the Frederick J Kendall births and possible deaths, the 1958 one does look the most likely.
I see what you mean about the Gallipoli one living in West Ham. As no age is listed anywhere for him though, there are others it could possibly be if they moved to West Ham between 1911 and the date he enlisted.

Of course, without the death certificate you can never know for sure. As the birth cert of your deceased father in law gives father blank though, he is unlikely to be the father, as Richard said.

[matilda1]

I will get the death certificate. Thank you all for you help and advice it is much appreciated.

[matilda1]

Hi All, I thought I would update you on this. I now have the death certificate and the full name is Frederick JOHN Kendall not Frederick James Kendall, so this one is definitely not mine.

[margaretmarch]

Have you got the birth cert for your father in law? Are you sure it is blank where father's name should be?

Also have you got the marriage cert for Emily and Frederick James? If so what was his occupation and father's name and occupation?

It might be possible to trace what happened to your Frederick James by finding his parents and any siblings.

Margaret

[Richard in Perth]

Remember too that the information on a death cert is only as good as the knowledge of the informant at the time. I have several death certs where the middle name is incorrect, even though I know from other information that I have the right cert. Maybe the informant didn't know his middle name, and made a guess based on the initial only? Can you eliminate this Frederick John Kendall by finding his birth/marriage/family based on e.g. informant name, occupation or address given on the death cert?

[matilda1]

Hi, Yes I do have the birth certificate for my father in law and his fathers name is left blank, the only name is his mothers Emily Kendall nee Redgewell. Frederick was a bricklayers labourer, his fathers name was William and he was also a bricklayers labourer and his father was Charles and he was a bricklayer so it appears that they all worked in construction. They were all born in West Ham. Frederick siblings were all born in West Ham.