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Isaac Sciama (born 1914 at Alexandria, Egypt)

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  • Isaac Sciama (born 1914 at Alexandria, Egypt)

    I wonder whether anyone can access any information upon Isaac Ezra Sciama who was born during October, 1914 at Alexandria, Egypt. He was the son of Ezra Isaac and his wife Ida (nee Mizrahi) Sciama who married during March 1907 at Alexandria. Isaac's sister Jeanne was born in 1910 at Alexandria.
    The surname 'Sciama' is a variation of the surname 'Shama'.
    I have found his birth details, I have a copy of his birth certificate, but I can find no further records (ie marriage, immigration or death).
    Any help would be so much appreciated.
    Kindest regards
    Sue

  • #2
    You didn't say what nationality he was Sue?.................not a lot coming out of Ancestry but a bit about Naturalization in New York for Isaac Shama...no date given.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Alan,

      No nationality given on Isaac's birth certificate, but registration was with British Consul General at Alexandria, Egypt when his birth was registered on 20th January 1914 by his father Ezra Isaac Sciama.

      Ezra Isaac Shama (father of Isaac - born 1914) married on 14th March 1907 and stated his nationality to be British, his year of birth was 1881 and his occupation was a stock broker; his place of residence was Alexandria, Egypt.
      Ida Mizrahi (mother of Isaac - born 1914) stated on the marriage certificate that her nationality was Austrian, her year of birth being 1885 and her place of residence was Alexandria.

      This marriage of Isaac's parents was also registered with 'District of British Consul General at Alexandria, Egypt.

      Comment


      • #4
        Looking on who would register an event with the British Consul Abroad I found this wording relating to births:-

        You must register your child’s birth according to the regulations in the country where the child was born. They will give you a local birth certificate.

        Once you’ve done this you may be able to apply to register the birth with the UK authorities.

        You don’t have to do this, but it means:

        you’ll get a UK-style birth certificate for the child
        you’ll have proof that the child is a British citizen
        the birth will be recorded with the General Register Office in the UK
        A locally-issued birth certificate should be accepted in the UK for all purposes, eg applying for a passport, registering with a school or doctor etc. It might need to be translated and certified if it’s not in English.


        Here's the link https://www.gov.uk/register-a-birth

        So it must be that the child(ren) are British although born abroad.

        Margaret
        Last edited by margaretmarch; 13-04-14, 23:11.

        Comment


        • #5
          how interesting these days all births must be registered in the country the birth took place in. i'm sure in the old days, you only registered it with the consul if you wanted your child to be british. otherwise the birth was registered by the country's laws- but i'm sure it was one or the other, not both.

          Comment


          • #6
            Don't forget Egypt was under British Rule from the 1880s. It then became a protectorate of Britain in 1915 and didn't achieve independence until 1922 so the "laws of the country" were British laws when your people were there.
            Judith passed away in October 2018

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
              how interesting these days all births must be registered in the country the birth took place in. i'm sure in the old days, you only registered it with the consul if you wanted your child to be british. otherwise the birth was registered by the country's laws- but i'm sure it was one or the other, not both.
              I don't think you do have to register twice - the last sentence says A locally-issued birth certificate should be accepted in the UK for all purposes, eg applying for a passport, registering with a school or doctor etc. It might need to be translated and certified if it’s not in English. so I think they are just saying you can if you want!

              Margaret

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by JudithM View Post
                Don't forget Egypt was under British Rule from the 1880s. It then became a protectorate of Britain in 1915 and didn't achieve independence until 1922 so the "laws of the country" were British laws when your people were there.
                I imagine Egypt had it's own system of birth registration and laws before Britain ruled there and that system would have continued, otherwise why still have a consul for all matters relating to British people?
                The Egyptians weren't made British people during that time and whilst I don't know for certain I don't think they were given British passports.

                Margaret

                Comment


                • #9
                  the only experience I have of anything like this is - my gg grandfather was b 1846 in Heligoland ...an Island off Denmark - British owned at the time - and on census returns it stated
                  Carl Freidrich Sacht - b 1846 British Subject
                  Charles Freidrich Sacht b 1846 British Subject
                  I can`t see why Isaac Scamia would not be a British Subject ?
                  Allan ......... researching oakes/anyon/standish/collins/hartley/barker/collins-cheshire
                  oakes/tipping/ellis/jones/schacht/...garston, liverpool
                  adams-shropshire/roberts-welshpool
                  merrick/lewis/stringham/nicolls-herefordshire
                  coxon/williamson/kay/weaver-glossop/stockport/walker-gorton

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The birth certificate I have for Isaac is the GRO one which proves Isaac was able to claim British citizenship.
                    I have been unable to find further information concerning his schooling, adult life, whether he left Egypt etc.
                    I assume because Isaac's father was a stock broker he was probably well educated but in view of all Egypt's political turmoils there is a distinct lack of available records, this of course hinders the ability to search. I have sent emails to a couple of the boys' schools in Alexandria but have had no reply, they probably think I'm 'nuts' wanting to know about education records relating to the early 1900s!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have no factual evidence but I am pretty sure that registration of BMD in Egypt is a relatively recent act. I know my ex mother in law, an Egyptian, (now in her 70's) did not know her actual birth date or year and stated that they did not officially record these events at that time.

                      We recorded our marriage via the British Embassy in Cairo, so I have two marriage certificates, Arabic and a certified translation that is recorded in the UK.

                      I am struck that your ancestors have strong Jewish names, I wonder if this is a route you could explore, although in these times may be more of a hindrance than a help.
                      Bubblebelle x

                      FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Even today, noncompliance with birth registration is a problem in Egypt with an estimated 10% of births going unrecorded/reported, mostly of females. In the past the problem was much higher with 100% noncompliance in some parts of Egypt!

                        Bubblebelle - we have already established that the family was Jewish.

                        OC

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                        • #13
                          Might they have sent the son back to the UK to be educated? Were there any UK relatives he could have stayed with in the holidays?

                          Jay
                          Janet in Yorkshire



                          Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                          • #14
                            I keep meaning to put this here - may be of no use whatsoever!

                            In 1914, 18,000 Jews were deported from Palestine and 14,000 of them went to Alexandria.

                            OC

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                            • #15
                              Have pm'd you Sue, re newspaper for Sciama Bros, shipping company with business in Alexandria and Syria, you may already have this but may relate somewhere along the line.
                              Last edited by bubblebelle; 16-04-14, 13:07.
                              Bubblebelle x

                              FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Just found this one under GRO consular marriages, have you come across this one?

                                First Name ISAAC
                                Last Name SHAMA
                                Year Range 1931-1935
                                Place ALEXANDRIA
                                Country EGYPT
                                Volume 26
                                Page 151

                                Searched and found

                                First Name EVA
                                Last Name SALAMA
                                Volume 26
                                Page 151
                                Last edited by Elaine; 23-04-14, 20:27.
                                Elaine

                                Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Hi Elaine,

                                  No, I hadn't found these details, that is a breakthrough.

                                  I will have to make some further investigations, it definitely sounds promising.

                                  Many thanks, I'll keep in touch with kindest regards
                                  Sue

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Hope so, haven't found anything else!
                                    Elaine

                                    Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                    http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                    http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Is her name really SALAMA and not SHAMA? How odd!

                                      OC

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I think I shall need to obtain a copy of the marriage certificate .....
                                        Sue

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