I have a marriage with the bride as a widow. Would her surname on this marriage certificate be her previous married name or her birth surname?
Hope that makes sense!
I have certificates with both! Not much help really!
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she should marry under her widowed surname. but her father's name will be a clue as to her birth surname. sometimes if a woman used an alias or was divorced the index will show both surnames. i have an aunt coates who was also registered as storey. the marriage cert revealed she was coates, but divorced from storey. so legally using her maiden name after the divorce.
Per Terianne's other post here the marriage is: Alexander Forbes (widower) and Jane Beadle (widow) in 1796, and the location is presently unknown. IMHO Jane's name on this marriage is more likely to be the surname of her first husband, and thus the marriage is Jane XXX to XXX Beadle, but I have a marriage where the widow married a second time using her maiden name not that of her first husband.
Per Terianne's other post here the marriage is: Alexander Forbes (widower) and Jane Beadle (widow) in 1796, and the location is presently unknown. IMHO Jane's name on this marriage is more likely to be the surname of her first husband, and thus the marriage is Jane XXX to XXX Beadle, but I have a marriage where the widow married a second time using her maiden name not that of her first husband.
(NB: poster did not give and was not able to give the father's name as this was before compulsory registration)
Terri - will post here rather than on your other thread. Please treat this with some caution as Jane's second marriage location is not yet found (but please note that many Kent parishes are not on family search so Jane's second marriage MIGHT be there too) but there is this marriage:
Name Henry Beadle
Spouse's Name Jane Viner
Event Date 31 Jan 1792
Event Place Darenth, Kent, England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number I02199-7
System Origin England-EASy
GS Film number 1473679
Reference ID item 2 p 21
Looking at this marriage on Cityark, this marriage was at St. Margaret of Antioch and the banns record states Henry was a bachelor and Jane a spinster, both "of this parish". The record originally written as Bedle but corrected with insertion of "a"
It appears that there were no children to this marriage
From the other thread, I see that James Forbes was from Greenwich. Therefore, this would certainly be a possibility for Jane's first marriage:
Name: James Beadle
Spouse Name: Jane Spright
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 22 Jun 1786
Parish: Deptford St Nicholas
Borough: Greenwich
Register Type: Parish Register
Sorry about the delay in responding - have been out all day.
Many thanks to you all for your replies
These are all the details I have from the National Archives
Alexander Forbes (widower) married Jane Beadle (widow) 6 July 1796 (extracted from the Parish Register of Lewisham Kent) in the presence of John Davis and Thomas Leaper.
I don't know Alexander's date of birth. He died 12 November 1807 in the Royal Hospital for Seamen, Greenwich.
The exact wording is -
These are to certify those whom it may concern, that Alexander Forbes was entered a Pensioner in the Royal Hospital for Seamen at Greenwich, the 3 day of June 1793 and died in the same the 27 day of August 1807. It appears by his Navy Office Certificate lodged in this office, that HMS Lizard was the last he served in, and that the whole of his servitude amounts to 20 years, 3 weeks and two days.
I then have another page headed Petition for a Boy
To his Royal Highness the Duke of Cumberland, and the other Commissioners of His Royal Naval Asylum
The humble petition of Jane Forbes
Residing East Lane Greenwich
in behalf of James Forbes
the child of Alexander Forbes late sailor
in his Majesty's ship Lizard
Sheweth that the said James Forbes
is the lawful child of Alexander and Jane Forbes
as will appear in the annexed certificates
That the said Alexander Forbes served on board HMS Prince Frederick, Levant, Lizard, Royal Vigilant, Edgar, and Lizard again, between 12 May 176? and 14 December 1792 - and died in Greenwich Hospital 27 August 1807
James the son aged 8 was admitted to the Royal Navy Asylum and discharged in 1813 aged 14!
.
OC - You're right dates don't add up. Had another look at the marriage details, it could well be 1790 and not 1796.
The other dates that don't add up are his service years. One page says he served 20 years, 3 weeks and 2 days and the other says he served from May 176? (which could be 1760, the last digit looks like 'a') and December 1792 which to me adds up to 32 years service!
I'm wondering if there are two Alexander Forbes - I have Alexander Forbes as one of my 3 x GGFs and I know from my research into him that there were dozens of men called Alexander Forbes!
Hi Terri - you do not state whether you have a copy of the marriage record in the documents you received or whether the details are entered: as witnesses are stated I assume you have a copy of the original marriage record. However, if you do not, you could contact:
Local History and Archives Centre
199 201 Lewisham Library, Lewisham High Street
SE13 6LG
Tel: 020 8314 8501
Email: local.studies@lewisham.gov.uk
I would take the marriage year as 1796 as this is what TNA have transcribed it as - take a look at the first 6 (in 6 Jul 1796): is it the same/similar to the last?
Your docs. state "Alexander Forbes was entered a Pensioner in the Royal Hospital for Seamen at Greenwich, the 3 day of June 1793 and died in the same the 27 day of August 1807" This does not necessarily mean he was there continuously: he might have been there initially, then out in time to marry and have a family, and then back in towards the end of his days.
In my experience, years of service are generally accurate: thus just over 20 years back from Dec 1792 takes us to about Nov 1772 when he joined the RN. Assuming he joined as a boy (quite common) at the age of 12 puts his birth at around 1760 as a rough calculation. If you want to PM me so we can arrange for you to send me scanned copies of the relevant parts of the docs which show the apparent differences in length of service (the one 20 years, the other 32 years) I will happily take a look for you if it would help.
Terri - forgot to mention the most important thing! As (as I hoped) you have a record of the ships he served on you can again at TNA look up the Ships' Musters series of records (ADM37) and Ships' Pay Books (ADM35) for each vessel - TNA has extensive archives for each ship: thus start with Prince Frederick and then follow that through to Lizard in Dec 1792.
When you consult these records (usually a complete set for every quarter) you will find a wealth of information including, although the quality of recording varies from ship to ship, his age, birth location/where from, and his rank. This should give you important further clues as to where and when Alexander was born. (BTW if you do not have the exact dates of each ship he was on in terms of start/finish dates, I would start at Lizard in Dec 1792 and work backwards until you find the date he joined Prince Frederick)
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