Wonder what happened here then ??

[bev&kev]

Just when I thought I was beyond being shocked by my ancestors:
Three children in the same family - two being "idiots" and one "imbecile".

Wonder what the difference was?

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/KENRG10_941_944-0600/13787611?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1871%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3djames%26gsln%3djames%26msbdy%3d1861%26msbpn__ftp%3dmaidstone%2bkent%26dbOnly%3d_F0003888%257c_F0003888_x%252c_F00027B9%257c_F00027B9_x%252c_F0003039%257c_F0003039_x%252c_F000303A%257c_F000303A_x%252c_F00032DB%257c_F00032DB_x%252c_83004006%257c_83004006_x%252c_F000303D%257c_F000303D_x%252c_F00032F2%257c_F00032F2_x%252c_F00032F6%257c_F00032F6_x%26uidh%3dng3%26msbdp%3d2%26pcat%3d1871UKI%26fh%3d0%26h%3d13787611%26recoff%3d%26ml_rpos%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord#?imageId=KENRG10_941_944-0600

[AntonyM]

Idiot / imbecile / moron /lunatic /moral defective / feeble minded were all words to describe different levels of impairment in common and acceptable usage at the time. They all had specific definitions as medical terms.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I think "imbecile" was a description of someone mentally retarded to some degree, i.e. someone with learning difficulties, mentally challenged, "a bit slow" intellectually.

"Idiot" was someone unable to make any decisions about themselves, their conduct or their welfare; I think another word used was "lunatic."

Jay

[bev&kev]

Is there anything genetic that would cause mental retardation or whatever? I can't think of anything off-hand but to have 3 in the same family ..... can't just be coincidence, surely?

[Lindsay]

Perhaps a genetic condition that led to intellectual impairment or deterioration? Have you found them in earlier censuses?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Do follow them through the census - my "imbecile" suddenly morphs into "grocery assistant"!

OC

[bev&kev]

Perhaps mine will do the same!

No disability noted on previous census. On following one, one of the children is "crippled from birth", another is in an asylum and the third one is at home with no disability mentioned.

[Christine in Herts]

Could be this one?

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Phenylketonuria/Pages/Introduction.aspx

It's usually avoided by the "heel test" - where a tiny bit of blodd is taken from a baby's heel and tested for a number of conditions. It was introduced after WW2, I think, ... rare enough, at first, for a nursing home not to have implemented it routinely in the mid-1950s, though it would have been done in a hospital.

Christine

[Christine in Herts]

Here is another problem for which people may not have understood the cause-effect relationship: https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/check-t...ome-%28fas%29/

Christine

[bev&kev]

Thanks for that Christine, that might very well explain it. And as it's a condition that "develops" it might explain why it wasn't mentioned on previous census(es) too. This is one lot of a huge extended family - it will be interesting to see if any similar disabilities crop up in any of the rest. But still, 3 in one family, talk about unlucky!

[Christine in Herts]

Thanks for that Christine, that might very well explain it. And as it's a condition that "develops" it might explain why it wasn't mentioned on previous census(es) too. This is one lot of a huge extended family - it will be interesting to see if any similar disabilities crop up in any of the rest. But still, 3 in one family, talk about unlucky!

It must have been pretty devastating. And on a non-emotional, and purely pragmatic, level it must have presented big economic challenges to have those extra mouths to feed and little prospect of them ever supporting themselves.

Christine

[kylejustin]

if you were so inclined, the death certs may reveal the issue. i have an ancestor mentioned in one census as imbecile. her cause of death (1881) was helpfully listed as 'disease of the brain'......i have yet to get her sibling's records to see if they had anything like that, but we know 2 of her daughters spent some time in mental hospitals, one dying there in 1920, and the other we are not sure is correct.

[Janet]

Be careful about assumptions on the one in an asylum. I found one of mine in an asylum in Chelsea in 1891 and was quite perturbed as he was only 13 and clearly living away from the family home, which was on the other side of London. So, for many years I just dismissed him, until one day about 5 years ago, I decided to take a closer look at the asylum and then discovered that he was at the Royal Military Asylum. The word Asylum in this case was another word for school and not for the sort of people we may think would be in an asylum. I then found more about his fascinating history, so worth looking into what sort of asylum!

Janet

[bev&kev]

Thanks Janet - in this case this is definitely an "asylum" asylum! Funnily enough though, her brother is in a military hospital - as a soldier, so I'm assuming this is due to accident or illness rather than anything else.

[Janet]

Thanks Janet - in this case this is definitely an "asylum" asylum! Funnily enough though, her brother is in a military hospital - as a soldier, so I'm assuming this is due to accident or illness rather than anything else.

Hm I would take a closer look at that if I were you. Yes, he could have been there due to illness if he was a soldier, but depending on age, say 12+ he might have been working as a soldier at the military hospital or the military hospital might actually be a school and he might be a rseident at the school. He could also have been working as some sort of orderly at the Military Hospital. The Greenwich Naval College actually started life as Greenwich Hospital and one of mine went to the Hospital when it was a school where he trained for the navy. Also, it was not just the boys that went to a Military Asylum but also the girls, and both sexes were educated at the same military asylums, usually the sons and daughters of close family members who had been in the army.


If you know the name of the Military Hospital, have you tried to find out where it is and waht it was athe time of your interest?

lJanet

[Christine in Herts]

Not forgetting that people were deemed to have mental problems when they may have had only physical ones which prevented them from communicating easily - or simply did something that other people thought was too unconventional.

Christine

[bev&kev]

*sigh* Next census, all three are "imbeciles" and back home alone with their 70 year old widowed father. It doesn't bear thinking about!
Anyway, he dies soon afterwards and now (1901), two are in (different) asylums (but are now "lunatics") and one is still an imbecile in the workhouse. I'm quite sad that they were split up.

[Diana Fronaeus]

Here are some not so well known causes to mental retardation: Pollution (coal), lack of sun - D vitamin (English paralysis) as we called it in Sweden. Comes from the fact that children working in the coalmine, lack of healty food, Alcohol as Christine mention, but there are more...a lot more. And you have to take in consideration in what paradigm ruled the social view at that time.
We have to bring in the holistic view in that. You could be accused of being mental retarded just by the fact you had reed hair.
Diana
(mother of child with disability, no genetic...just the human factor).