Repositories

[White Mist]

Still a newbie, still loving family research, and want to try to sharpen my skills taking one thing at a time starting with Repositories as this causes me the most confusion at the moment. When I think that I have understood, the lines become blurred again – if anyone can help explain the intricacies I would be very grateful.

I have been trying to understand for some months about the Repositories subject in terms of: original documents, original Certified Copy certificates given at the time of the event (Birth, Marriage, Death); Certified Copy certificates obtained from TNA/GRO UK and images or information of these certificates obtained via Ancestry or other websites ie LDS, local archive centres etc.


In terms of a repository as the holder of BMD certificates/information –


A) what is the difference between The National Archives and the General Register Office UK in terms of an archive and are these organisations interchangeable? Why do people use one and not the other? I have some original Certified Copy of an Entry of (some BMDs) given at the time of the event. I have also obtained some of these documents via the freeBMD Index and THA & GRO and am uncertain who to cite as Repository and as a holder of these certificates, does that make me a Repository now?


B) I am confused about the role of parish records and dioceses records in terms of repositories?


C) in terms of registering a BMD event, how does the local registrar’s office; county archives; family history centres and TNA & GRO fit in to the role of the repository?


D) are online images/information held by a third or fourth parties considered to be repositories ie Ancestry; LDS; county archives and family history centres etc


I understand that online BMD indexes are not regarded as Repositories.





Many thanks


PS At the moment I am mainly using Ancestry both as a research source and for family tree.

[Vonny North West]

Have a look here for full explanation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repository

Vonny

[Olde Crone Holden]

TNA has no role in preserving, storing or supplying bmd certificates. BMD certs are stored by the GRO.

Primary source record - births and deaths are registered at local level by the local registrar and his office. He sends quarterly copies to the GRO which is the national repository for a copy of these records. You can obtain copies from either source, most people use the GRO for ease of ordering but these copies are of course secondary sources really as they have been copied at least twice.

Marriage records are the same, except that the primary source will be the church where the marriage was performed. They send copies to the local Registrar and to the GRO. You can often see transcriptions or even images of marriages on line.

Indexes are not repositories, they are indexes! Personally, if I have found something in the indexes, I make a note of it, but an entry in an index is proof of nothing and requires a copy of the original cert.

The GRO and the local Register Offices act entirely independently of each other (although local Registrars are responsible to the General Registrar). The local offices use their own system of indexing and order numbers, the GRO uses an entirely different system and the two are not interchangeable. GRO is funded by central government, local offices are funded by county taxation (council tax) with, I believe, some funding from central government.

TNA is the national repository of documents of national importance and interest, but NOT records to do with births, baptisms, marriages, deaths and burials.

OC

[JudithM]

I'm guessing that you have asked this because you are (very sensibly) including sources in your family tree and are not sure how to record them? In this case the info above is needed but at the end of the day the most important thing is to record what info you used and where you found it in a way which means you, and others if you pass on your tree, can find it again.

[AntonyM]

Remember that there is no original BMD certificate. There is an original entry in the register made by the registrar (or vicar). All certificates are copies of the information held in the register.

In the case of GRO - as OC points out, the information has been copied usually at least twice, before it arrives on a certificate in front of you.

Local registration offfices will only be copying the information once when issuing a certificate, and have the original register in front of them when they do it. If requested it is often possible to create a certificate using a photocopy of the actual regsiter entry (if the register is not too fragile).

[Olde Crone Holden]

When I first used an online tree programme, I got into a terrible muddle trying to quote sources etc, so I have simplified sources and citations for my own use.

"I have this document/certificate" means I have a primary source copy, or as near to that as it is possible to get.

"Information seen at xxxx" means I have seen a copy of original documentation or as near as possible, and the place where I have seen it.

"Internet information" - to me, this is the equivalent of pencilled information on a paper tree - means it needs checking and is not yet FACT.

If I don't have a copy bmd cert, I will put the reference number as a source - again, to me this is a reminder that I don't have the cert and therefore the information is not proven.

Very rarely do I take notice of information on other people's trees, but if something seems worth following up, I make a note "Seen on Ancestry Tree@blahblah"

OC

[Anne in Carlisle]

Snap OC.

I enter sources of the information I include in my trees and files in a similar way to OC. I put as much information as is needed so that when I look back at it in 5 years time I don't go "Hhhhuuuuhhhh??" and I can find the information again if needed. The information might be in my files (as cuttings or certificates), in the Archives I have visited, or online (in which case I make a note that will help me find it again if needed)

I don't use the term repository at all! Its your tree ... in the end you can do it exactly as you want and I know some people like to have immense detail in their sources. Obviously if you are doing it professionally like Anthony, then you will need to be more rigorous!

Anne

[PeteW1959]

I use the term 'Repository' to indicate where I have stored my copy of the document. This may be a chapter and page in a book I own, a BMD certificate, a digital census or parish register image or a text file with a transcription, and it may be stored on a bookcase, in a filing cabinet or a folder on the computer. Where I obtained these documents from is the 'Source'.

Most of my BMD certificates have come from the GRO, one or two from local offices, some 'originals' that I have been given to me by family or I have scanned myself; unless you have limitless resources of money and time it is unlikely most people would get all their certificates from local offices. As the GRO certificate is "Certified to be a true copy of an entry in the certified copy of a Register of......." I consider it to be as close to original as is practical to get, and is legally acceptable as proof.

At the end of the day, as others have said, it doesn't really matter how you do it, as long as it makes sense to you, and you have something that describes your scheme so others could follow it if needed.

[Olde Crone Holden]

90% of my certificates were obtained from local offices and it is only in the last five years or so that I have used the GRO - mostly because the local offices no longer offer the superb and chatty service they used to! In fact for many years their certs were CHEAPER than the GRO (£6 as against £7.50, ISTR). I rarely bought a wrong cert from the local because it was nearly always possible to get them to work out if it was right or wrong before I paid for it! They always sent me a photocopy, so original sigs and original information - except on two occasions when the register was too fragile to photocopy. In those two cases they sent me tracings of the signatures. The GRO is fast and efficient and fine as long as you know exactly what you want, but there is a huge black hole in their records (in my experience) estimated to be over 5 million mistakes!

I agree with the above, record however it suits YOU, so that you can remember where you found the information. I also agree with Pete that the term "repository" means to me where the document is stored NOW, which is not exactly the same thing as where the information is stored now.

OC

[webwiz]

All of the above entries are correct, but not the full story. It is a complicated picture and you cannot expect to get a full explanation in a forum. I suggest a good book. Not mentioned so far AFAICS are Bishop's Transcripts, Catholic and Non-Conformist records, Wills, Deeds , Bastardy Bonds, Electoral and other Rolls, Manorial and Military records and many other sources which you will probably need if you continue with this fascinating hobby.

[White Mist]

Thank you so much OC for your thorough explanations. You have managed to summarise all of the bits of individual, piecemeal online information that I have found in various places into something that makes sense and is easy to understand and in one place. Sigh of relief.

Its not that I want to be a professional genealogist but as there are so many errors that other people have made when researching my own family tree, I need to prove or disprove to myself that the information that I include has the best likelihood of being a true representation of the truth as I believe it to be at that time. So, my thinking is that the repositories and the sources of my evidence have to be recorded correctly so that I personally can find my own evidence (and other people that are really interested) in the future as more relevant information may come to light during my future investigations.

Many thanks again