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Val wish Id never started
11-03-14, 16:16
This is a request I got yesterday from a member on Ancestry have taken out peoples names

[Quote]unknown and unknown are my grandparents. I would like to be able to see their wedding announcement if at all possible[Unquote]


Does that seem rude to you?

I replied I would need their email to send the image

Got their reply just an email address nothing else not a please nor a thankyou

Am I being silly to expect a little more

I do feel inclined not to bother

PeteW1959
11-03-14, 16:22
I was always brought up that please and thank-you cost nothing.

I often get requests like this and just ignore them; if they can't be bothered to be polite, I can't be bothered to send them the info.

JBee
11-03-14, 16:27
They seem to think they have the right to your info. Think I would ignore it until I got a proper request for help.

Val wish Id never started
11-03-14, 16:28
Thanks Pete I just dont understand people like this, plus the article she is interested in I have from having a newspaper sub so not cheap.

Val wish Id never started
11-03-14, 16:29
Thanks JBee was worried I was getting annoyed over nothing:(

bubblebelle
11-03-14, 16:35
It's difficult isn't it? On the one hand please and thank you cost nothing, but also sometimes we get so frustrated with our search we forget the niceties, but that does not excuse the reply with an email.

It is your decision how you proceed, for me I would check the person's profile and weigh up what I find with how much that bit of info means to me. I Recently I had a similar request related to my Grandfathers long term partner/companion. In the end there was information close to me I did not want to share, but did send via a document all the information related to her ancestor and his branch. She was profuse with her thanks.

SmallTownGirl
11-03-14, 16:58
I have had a contact via Ancestry with someone who's messages seemed rather abrupt and didn't always quite make sense, but he was very giving with the information he provided. It turns out he's a US-born second cousin, which is fine, but he's also profoundly deaf and that accounts for his irregular use of written English. Not that, from what you've quoted, your contact seems to be displaying similar signs.

I know this doesn't help, but it does perhaps just give a different angle.

STG

Val wish Id never started
11-03-14, 17:02
I had a similar request a while back and told her outright that I thought she was very rude she apologised and said thats how they are in America ??
I will ponder on it:)

Janet in Yorkshire
11-03-14, 17:25
I would expect at least a bit of information explaining the connection with my tree.
Also I would make the proviso that any documentation I sent was NOT for display on a public tree, nor to be passed on to a 3rd party, without my permission, as I had PAID for the image and, subject to the T & C of that site, it had been downloaded for my own PERSONAL use only.

I won't even bother asking if she is sending anything back in exchange! :rotfl:

Jay

Christine in Herts
11-03-14, 17:41
I would expect at least a bit of information explaining the connection with my tree.
Also I would make the proviso that any documentation I sent was NOT for display on a public tree, nor to be passed on to a 3rd party, without my permission, as I had PAID for the image and, subject to the T & C of that site, it had been downloaded for my own PERSONAL use only.

I won't even bother asking if she is sending anything back in exchange! :rotfl:

Jay

I was going to suggest much the same as Jay.

Christine

Guy
11-03-14, 17:47
I would send the information they ask for.
Perhaps they have not had the education in manners you expect them to have.

How does ignoring their request (i.e. behaving in exactly the same way as them) do anything to improve the situation?

I agree it may be annoying but we as historians are not there to police the manners of others.
In a similar vein you have the information, it will not cost anything to email that information to him/her so why not do it.
It makes no difference if you paid nothing or thousands for it, that was so you could gain access to it.

Selfishness promotes selfishness, generosity promotes generosity, you may not benefit from the person you share with but someone else may.
Please be generous.
Cheers
Guy

clematised
11-03-14, 17:58
Guy although I have said nothing on the subject of sharing, I feel guilty for my thoughts, you are right as usual, thank you for your generosity.

Edna

Christine in Herts
11-03-14, 18:00
Guy although I have said nothing on the subject of sharing, I feel guilty for my thoughts, you are right as usual, thank you for your generosity.

Edna

I would agree - but there is still the matter of the need to comply with the T&Cs of the source site of the image/data.

Christine

susan h
11-03-14, 18:04
Gosh Val, I find the email response in particular, very discourteous. I've had dealings with a similar request in the past, once this person had my email address they inundated me wanting more, more, more, and not all relating directly to an ancestor, I remember one request was 'could I find the cheapest deal for FTM available to an Australian'. All the requests were matter of fact, almost demands, certainly not asked for or received in a gracious way. Now, I never answer requests from people who don't have the decency to say please and thank you.


unknown and unknown are my grandparents. I would like to be able to see their wedding announcement if at all possible

A tempting answer could be, 'the announcement is available for purchase from blah, blah newspaper' :) ;)

Joking apart, I'd be tempted to ignore the request, but your call, Val. Always be careful who you give your email address to.

Olde Crone Holden
11-03-14, 18:09
Guy

I agree it dosn't hurt to share but once you've handed over the information you lose control of it.

How does Val know that this contact is indeed a grandchild of the couple? If she/he isn't, then the information gets added onto a wrong tree, cluttering up the ether even more with WRONG information. Personally, I'd expect a bit more interaction first (like:if they are your grandparents, how come you don't already have this info?)

OC

susan h
11-03-14, 18:12
Just read Guy's post and whilst I agree with what he says, I do struggle with once bitten twice shy. Some people unfortunately want others to do almost everything for them, the person I speak of in my post made me feel guilty if I didn't supply what they wanted, and believe me they wanted a lot, at the time I was having chemotherapy and feeling most unwell, I explained this but still the requests came fast and furious. No, there's definitely some people who don't deserve others help.

OC, makes a valid point.

Christine in Herts
11-03-14, 18:33
I would think that giving detailed info about where the information can be legitimately obtained is a reasonable reply, as susan h suggested...

'the announcement is available for purchase from blah, blah newspaper'
together with the relevant site - FMP, or Times Digital Archive, or...

That way you are being helpful without risking a breach of the T&Cs of the site(s) in question. You could mention any credit/subscription options available - and remark that many libraries have subscriptions which would enable a member to gain access to the sites in question for free.

Christine

Darksecretz
11-03-14, 18:45
A tempting answer could be, 'the announcement is available for purchase from blah, blah newspaper' :) ;)


why joke?? that I think would be my answer too, I would give them the link and opportunity to purchase the information for themselves, that way, you aren't losing face Val and if they are serious they will then acquire said information without being rude to you any further.

Olde Crone Holden
11-03-14, 18:50
Susan

I am reminded of a contact to whom I sent a huge parcel of photocopied items - cost me about £10 to post it, never mind anything else (I had no printer at that time). She had nagged me daily for the stuff and I felt a bit mean because I felt pressured, lol.

I waited for her response and after a week I was concerned that she hadn't received the parcel so I emailed her:

"Has the parcel arrived safely?"

"Yes" she replied...and that was it!

OC

Val wish Id never started
11-03-14, 19:29
Thanks for your replies
I usually am more than pleased to share stuff, and to be honest most of the people who tell me they will share info they have with me dont have any I dont already have, and the couple who did promise stuff that would have been great never bothered to send it.
I had one contact who wanted stuff from The National Archives that somebody on here kindly got for me and who paid for it ? me , this contact never even offered to pay towards it, and I did tell her how much it had cost me, and most of it wasn't really in my interest only a small portion was.
OC that is disgusting I would have been furious.
And Guy I did not have any education in manners but I think I know when to say please and thank you.

susan h
11-03-14, 19:36
Susan

I am reminded of a contact to whom I sent a huge parcel of photocopied items - cost me about £10 to post it, never mind anything else (I had no printer at that time). She had nagged me daily for the stuff and I felt a bit mean because I felt pressured, lol.

I waited for her response and after a week I was concerned that she hadn't received the parcel so I emailed her:

"Has the parcel arrived safely?"

"Yes" she replied...and that was it!

OC

Some people really do beggar belief, don't they!!

Thankfully most people are polite, and grateful for help received. Most of us on these forums have proved our generosity to others by the time we give freely, and the effort we put into requests. I think we can all feel satisfied that we aren't selfish or unkind. I shall utilise my spare time to help those who also want to help themselves and are grateful for my time, nothing wrong with that, makes complete sense to me!

Chrissie Smiff
11-03-14, 19:57
I'm finding it difficult to know how to reply Val. I know how generous you are at helping people (including me) with anything that you can. I also know how frustrating it can be when you get a curt request/response, though I have been lucky and only ever had one. But I also know that there are a few people who don't seem to realise the importance of good manners, probably because they have never been shown any, or surrounded by people with manners. I have never refused to give any information/photos etc though but taken their word that they were descendants. I do usually ask how they got the information of their connection and they have always been happy to tell me.
If you are unhappy about letting them see your e-mail address though, could you perhaps put the item on Photobucket and attach it to a reply on an Ancestry reply? I'm not sure whether the links work on there though, as they do on here?

Val wish Id never started
11-03-14, 20:03
thanks again its really odd but I just looked at Ancestry she does not even have her tree on there? that I can see

greyingrey
11-03-14, 20:06
It does sound somewhat abrupt/curt to me, Val, but I'm wondering if they're perhaps not a British English native speaker (that's what first struck me...that it sounds almost like the English a lot of Germans would write....they don't use please or thank you so often...not meant to be rude..just different usage)or it may be someone who can't blather on for England like I can....but, if they are native English speakers, there's no excuse for not saying thank you

Chrissie Smiff
11-03-14, 20:10
Perhaps she is a 'newcomer' to family history and doesn't understand the ins and outs yet? She may also be very young. You know what it's like when you first start and don't know your census from your certs:) Of course she must have used a credit card though, even if she just has a free 6 months membership.
p.s. Agree with Grey, she could be a foreigner and struggle with English?

Val wish Id never started
11-03-14, 20:14
you have a point there Grey I did have someone like that a while ago,and Chrissie yes she could be new or young not that it should excuse her , When I first started I got so excited if anybody found something for me I always thanked them, dont understand some people .
Shall have a little think.

greyingrey
11-03-14, 20:40
"I would like" is a construction Germans very often use because there's a direct German translation which is used when you're being very polite & it includes the concept of please & being grateful etc. It might be interesting to ask if they're German....tell them you've got a friend who wants some tips for German research. If she's a non native speaker, she should come back & say "Oh no, but I'm French" etc & then you'll be able to judge it better

greyingrey
11-03-14, 20:46
Just thinking that a native British English speaker would be more likely to say "I'd like" than "I would like"...but you never know

julite
11-03-14, 21:33
Agree totally with Guy. People have taken 'things' from my Ancestry tree - sometimes with an acknowledgement, often without. I'm quite happy for this to happen, with whatever degree of manners shown - that's their problem - I hope whatever they've taken helps them. I benefitted tremendously from A using an item from B's cache - they had taken it from C, who had got it from the great grand-daughter of said item. Via these circuitous links, I was able to make contact with D -the great grand-daughter, thus finding a second cousin. I am also a great grand-daughter of the same couple, but had nothing other than census/bmd records. So thanks to A, via B and C - I now have images of my great grandparents, plus email contact with my second cousin.

Val wish Id never started
11-03-14, 21:50
when I take anything from somebodies tree like a photo etc I always contact them and ask if they mind, none have as yet.
Anyway have now sent it will see if I get a response, probably not.

Chrissie Smiff
11-03-14, 21:56
It's kind of you Val:) I think you have done the right thing:)

susan h
12-03-14, 01:41
when I take anything from somebodies tree like a photo etc I always contact them and ask if they mind, none have as yet.
Anyway have now sent it will see if I get a response, probably not.

Keep us updated, Val. I do hope you receive a pleasant message back.

Elaine ..Spain
12-03-14, 07:23
Just thinking that a native British English speaker would be more likely to say "I'd like" than "I would like"...but you never know
I might say "I'd like" but if I was writing it then it would be "I would like" :)

Good luck Val - hope you get a "thank you reply" :)

Guy
12-03-14, 08:02
By education I meant being taught to use manners by parents, peers, and or the people who brought one up.
Not formal education in the form of a school lesson on etiquette but informal education by being corrected when one makes a mistake.
I think most of us are educated on the use of manners in that way.

On the other hand having manners can sometimes be an embarrassment.
I remember when I was about twelve my mother was rushed into hospital with appendicitis. My sister and I had to be housed in the school boarding houses as it was deemed we were too young to cope on our own whilst she was away.
Being a new boy in the boarding house I had to sit next to the matron at mealtimes at a table with about 30 others. You can imagine how I cringed with embarrassment when during tea, a couple of days into my stay, the matron made the announcement for the boys to observe how I ate and how I asked if those around me wanted salt butter etc and offered the object to them before being asked.

These were basic manners taught to me by my mother throughout the years I was growing up and were now second nature to me. Things done automatically without thought; like saying please and thank you.

I imagine that the majority of the boys in the boarding house had been taught the same as I was but because they were eating with their peers their manners slipped.
Since then I discovered that many people automatically alter their actions, responses and indeed manners depending on how they perceive the company they are in.

Perhaps those perceived as having no manners are operating in a media they are not comfortable in and are possibly struggling to find the way to express themselves adequately, rather than intentionally being rude.
Cheers
Guy

Val wish Id never started
12-03-14, 13:22
I will keep you updated , but am not holding out much hope:rolleyes:
Guy I was not taught good manners we grew up in a very poor family, and it was a sort of free for all ,but I make a point of saying please and thank you and if something pleases me I will tell the company ,as I think its as important to praise as it is to complain.
Its funny you say that though as we brought our kids up to say please and thank you etc , I always made a point of our family eating together at the Table , There would sometime be Biscuits or Cake on the Table ,my Son would help himself while my Daughter looked on , I had to say to her you can take some you know.;)

Olde Crone Holden
12-03-14, 14:11
Once you are an adult, unless you are deeply thick, you ought to have realised that please and thankyou are standard!

OC

Val wish Id never started
12-03-14, 14:51
quite right OC life is a good teacher:)

greyingrey
12-03-14, 16:21
Well, if you're sensitive, Val, then so am I. I've got a distant relative I was in contact with, but I always felt he was talking down to me. Only too happy to get any help (as you well know), but I just got the sense that he was dismissing anything I said out of hand (& I turned out to be right on more than one occasion) Probably just me.

Val wish Id never started
12-03-14, 20:13
I know what you mean Grey you get the raised eyebrows etc, I doubt it was you more like his bad manners.

Val wish Id never started
14-03-14, 13:53
well seeing as she was on every day up until I gave her the info have heard nothing :sinister::confused:yet

bubblebelle
14-03-14, 14:02
That is a shame Val.... but as a believer in karma, that is another credit point in your favour.

susan h
14-03-14, 15:45
well seeing as she was on every day up until I gave her the info have heard nothing :sinister::confused:yet

She's not doing herself any favours, is she? For her sake I hope she doesn't want anything else from you.

You never mind Val, take comfort knowing you're the better person.

Chrissie Smiff
14-03-14, 16:56
I still think you did the right thing Val:) Take comfort in the fact that you have helped many who really appreciated it. Surely that more than balances out any that don't appear to (or just don't show it, for whatever reason).

Jill on the A272
14-03-14, 17:02
I had a similar request a while back and told her outright that I thought she was very rude she apologised and said thats how they are in America ??
I will ponder on it:)

All my US contacts have been delightfully courteous, so that excuse won't wash!

Chrissie Smiff
14-03-14, 17:07
All my US contacts have been delightfully courteous, so that excuse won't wash!

Now I come to think of it, the assistants on Ancestry free phone (all Americans in my experience) are amongst the most polite people I have ever come across. You can have a laugh and a joke with them too - which I like:)

Val wish Id never started
14-03-14, 18:42
Yes I must say most people are really nice and pleased to have info
I remember when a family contact sent me a Photo of my Grandfather ,neither I nor my Mother had known him as she was only 4 months old when he died , I was euphoric for months still am really, I was so thrilled I sent her a basket of Flowers and a Bear, cheap at half the price., just wish my Mother had been alive to see it.

Felix
14-03-14, 23:36
What a great story Val.

You were exceedingly generous to me when I needed information and I'll always be grateful. It made a huge difference to my research in that direction. :o

Janet in Yorkshire
15-03-14, 12:20
Yes I must say most people are really nice and pleased to have info
I remember when a family contact sent me a Photo of my Grandfather ,neither I nor my Mother had known him as she was only 4 months old when he died , I was euphoric for months still am really, I was so thrilled I sent her a basket of Flowers and a Bear, cheap at half the price., just wish my Mother had been alive to see it.

I know how thrilling that must have been for you, Val. On Wednesday I met up for lunch with the daughter of one of my Mum's cousins. She said "I've got something to show you " and produced a studio portrait of our communal great-grandmother (1851 - 1928) which had been passed on to her by another of her cousins, who was clearing out the contents of his late mother's home. When she handed me an envelope and said "I've had a copy made for you" I literally wept with joy. Some people are just soooo thoughtful and kind.

Jay

Val wish Id never started
15-03-14, 15:05
Felix its always a pleasure to find stuff for some people and you were one of them;)
Thats wonderful Janet, I would be jumping up and down, the same contact that sent me the photo also sent me a disc which his Sister had recorded about their life when young and on it she mentions my Grandfather, I have listened to it so many times.

Val wish Id never started
15-03-14, 15:07
I'm sitting here seething about this contact have a good mind to email her and ask if she got the article okay and if she says yes give her a piece of my mind.

susan h
15-03-14, 22:59
You quite rightly feel dispirited, Val. It's unforgivable of 'her' not to have acknowledged receipt of the article, but it's good you have also encountered some kind people with connected ancestry. Chin up girl, put it down to her ignorance and hope to never hear from her again.

And comments such as Felix's are uplifting and make you feel your help is worthwhile, for every ungracious person, there's umpteen polite, grateful, and pleasant folk.

Val wish Id never started
15-03-14, 23:06
your quite right Susan its just galling me she has that info now gggggggggrrrrrrrrrr

susan h
15-03-14, 23:14
For what it's worth I'd feel same as you; I've had similar experiences - but they fade in time. Don't lose faith, you'll continue to meet some lovely, kind folk, folk like yourself [love your story of the photo you received, and your kindness in sending flowers] :)

Val wish Id never started
15-03-14, 23:38
I wont lose faith , but I cannot see how anyone could take something like that without saying thanks, after all it gave lots of info of people at the wedding, ah well I am going to block her from contacting me again

Tora
16-03-14, 07:55
Val,

I've had it happen but the information I believe, will really do her no good in the long run, as she probably won't share. If she turns out to be that sort of person I would feel sorry for her as she is missing so much in life and doesn't even know it.

Tora

Macbev
16-03-14, 08:28
Someone (and since my marbles are a little scattered nowadays, I disremember who), once told me, 'Virtue is its own reward - there is none other.'

Once I had thought carefully about this remark, I ceased to worry about such issues as ingratitude and gained much peace of mind :)

Olde Crone Holden
16-03-14, 08:39
This subject comes up from time to time and I remember someone saying, that actually, what they wanted most was the chance to discuss this thing that they shared!

OC

Chrissie Smiff
16-03-14, 09:52
Someone (and since my marbles are a little scattered nowadays, I disremember who), once told me, 'Virtue is its own reward - there is none other.'

Once I had thought carefully about this remark, I ceased to worry about such issues as ingratitude and gained much peace of mind :)

It's a well known saying I think Bev:) My parents and grandparents all used to quote it.


This subject comes up from time to time and I remember someone saying, that actually, what they wanted most was the chance to discuss this thing that they shared!

OC

I think that's true OC, especially if there is a close family connection. In fact even when there isn't come to think of it. The other day I was exchanging information with someone who turned out to be more or less unconnected to the branch I was asking about but she was thrilled to tell me about something she had found on her branch and when I told her about some scandal on my branch she said that she wished we were more connected as she found it fascinating.

Val wish Id never started
16-03-14, 13:28
I have decided not to let it eat me up, most of my contacts have been lovely:)