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  • Military births.

    My grandmother Mary Bryce Saunders married George Alfred Jones, an army sergeant in 1892 in Kent. We know that they went to India as my aunt was born there in 1899, shortly before her father died. My problem is that there don't seem to be any previous children and instinct tells me that in those days there were normally children within a year or so of marriage. We don't know when the couple went to India and i can find no record of any births in either this country or India. I wonder if anyone has any suggestions?

  • #2
    https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGWV-346 Baptism of daughter

    https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X7VW-R91 not sure if this is your man

    Edna

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    • #3
      https://familysearch.org/search/reco...ame%3Asaunders~

      There may be some possibilities in these names, I don't have pay per view sites sorry

      Edna

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      • #4
        Thanks Edna, the first link was indeed the correct people, namely my aunt Mabel. The second link couldn't have been him though as he died in India a few weeks after Mabel's birth. As George and Mary married in 1892 I am surprised that there were 7 years with no children.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by LilyB View Post
          Thanks Edna, the first link was indeed the correct people, namely my aunt Mabel. The second link couldn't have been him though as he died in India a few weeks after Mabel's birth. As George and Mary married in 1892 I am surprised that there were 7 years with no children.
          There were of course women in those days who had trouble getting pregnant and there wasn't as now any help for them. Do you know for sure that George was in fact at home during those 7 years? If he was in the army it's possible he was posted away hence no children.

          Margaret

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          • #6
            We actually know very little about George. I know that he was a colour sergeant and have his soldier number but can find no military records for him at all so have no idea where he was apart from the fact that he married in Folkestone in 1892, both he and his wife were in India in 1899 where Mabel was born, and he died up a mountain in India also in 1899. Mary went on to marry my grandfather and had 7 more children. I have no information on George's early life at all.

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            • #7
              I presume you have searched FIBIS for India records and FMP for military records? Whst is his soldier's number?

              Does Mabel's record give any details of his regiment or detailed residence?
              Last edited by Bertie; 11-03-14, 08:36.

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              • #8
                Forgot to ask also - where and when was he born and do you have him in 1891 and 1881? What information age and occupation esp is given on the marriage record?
                Last edited by Bertie; 11-03-14, 08:58.

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                • #9
                  His death (from FMP) is:

                  JONES George Alfred Indian Subcontinent Unknown 1899

                  Appears his regiment is unknown but is there any clue in the record or eve an account of his death in the papers?


                  The only Army service record with that full name old enough to marry in 1892 is:

                  JONES George Alfred 1867 Devonport, Devon WO96 Militia

                  Do you have this record? does the age at least tally with Mary?
                  Last edited by Bertie; 11-03-14, 09:04.

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                  • #10
                    Is this him?

                    Name George Alfred Jones
                    Gender Male
                    Burial Date 04 May 1899
                    Burial Place Murree, Bengal, India
                    Death Date 03 May 1899
                    Death Place
                    Age 31
                    Birth Date 1868
                    Birthplace
                    Occupation Sergt Bedfordshire Regt
                    Race White
                    Marital Status Unknown
                    Spouse's Name
                    Father's Name
                    Father's Birthplace
                    Mother's Name
                    Mother's Birthplace
                    Indexing Project (Batch) Number B75065-3
                    System Origin India-EASy
                    GS Film number 512375
                    Reference ID D75065-3

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Mundia has a tree with very little details, but father noted as John, do from familysearch poss. are:

                      Name: George Alfred Jones
                      Event Type: Census
                      Event Date: 1871
                      Gender: Male
                      Age: 5
                      Relationship to Head of Household: Son
                      Birthplace: Devonport
                      Schedule Type: Household
                      Registration District: Newport Pagnell
                      Sub-District: Fenny Stratford
                      Parish: Bletchley
                      County: Buckinghamshire
                      Household Gender Age Birthplace
                      Self John Jones M 36 Bletchley, Bucks
                      Wife Eliza Ann Jones F 33 Landport, Hants
                      Son George Alfred Jones M 5 Devonport
                      Daughter Louisa H Jones F 3 Woolwich, Kent
                      Daughter Eiza A Jones F 1 Bletchley, Bucks


                      Name: George A Jones
                      Age (Original): 15
                      Gender: Male
                      Birth Year: 1866
                      Birthplace: Devonport, Devon, England
                      Relationship to Head of Household: Son
                      Marital Status: Single
                      Occupation: General Labourer Unemployed
                      Address: Duncombe St
                      Event Place: Fenny Stratford, Buckinghamshire, England
                      Disability:
                      Record Type: Household
                      GS Film number: 1341358
                      Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
                      Piece/Folio: 1480 / 70
                      Page Number: 5
                      Household Gender Age Birthplace
                      Head John Jones M 46 Bletchley, Buckinghamshire, England
                      Wife Eliza A Jones F 43 Landport, Hampshire, England
                      Son George A Jones M 15 Devonport, Devon, England
                      Daughter Louisa H Jones F 13 Woolwich, Kent, England
                      Daughter Sarah J Jones F 7 Bletchley, Buckinghamshire, England
                      Daughter Selina Jones F 5 Fenny Stratford, Buckinghamshire, England
                      Son William H Jones M 2 Fenny Stratford, Buckinghamshire, England

                      If so, likely birth is:

                      JONES George A Stoke D 5b 321 Q2 1866
                      Last edited by Bertie; 11-03-14, 09:23.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Bertie. Yes i think that could be him. The only information i have on him are his marriage certificate and his death certificate. His marriage certificate states that he married Mary Brice Saunders on March 29th 1892 at the age of 24. His bride was 19. He is listed as a sergeant in the Bedfordshire regiment. Residence Cheriton and his father's name John Jones, a silversmith. I have not been able to find any definitive information on him or the rest of his family. The marriage took place in the Parish of Christchurch, Folkestone. Witnesses were Richard Saunders and Jane Elizabeth Turrell.

                        His death certificate states that he died on 4th May 1899 at Thobba, he was 31 years and 8 months. Rank Cr. Sergeant 1525. He died of pneumonia which ties in with what my mother always related to us. we know that Mary didn't make it to him before he died although she had been summoned. She had a very young baby and it was a difficult journey and she was too late. The informant of the death was Sd. H.P.O. Briers Major R.A.M.C i/c Station Hospital Thobba. The death was registered on 9th May 1899 at Mooltan and the officer making the return was Lieut. and A. Adjutant 1st Bn Bedfordshire Regiment.

                        I am not familiar with FIBIS, and have not found any relevant records on FMP so far although the one you state does sound as if it might be a possibility. George Jones seems to have been a very common name!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bertie View Post
                          His death (from FMP) is:

                          JONES George Alfred Indian Subcontinent Unknown 1899

                          Appears his regiment is unknown but is there any clue in the record or eve an account of his death in the papers?


                          The only Army service record with that full name old enough to marry in 1892 is:

                          JONES George Alfred 1867  Devonport, Devon WO96 Militia

                          Do you have this record? does the age at least tally with Mary?
                          This record suggests that he was living in Bletchley, Bucks, in 1885 at the time of enlistment - probably in 3rd Beds Regt.

                          Christine
                          Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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                          • #14
                            http://www.fibis.org/ Families In British India, you can use the search Box and add his name to see how many hits you get but all the hits may not find him

                            Edna

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                            • #15
                              thanks Edna, unfortunately Fibis didn't find anything at all in my search. This man seems very elusive.

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                              • #16
                                The Jones family in Bucks look like a good bet as the father John Jones is a watch and clock repairer which would match the 'silversmith' occupation given by George on his marriage.

                                There are several trees on ancestry showing George and his family so might be worth contacting them to see what they know.

                                Margaret

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Hi LilyB - I don't understand what you mean by elusive - but there is nothing in FIBIS I could find but that's not a surprise to me. Otherwise, there seems to be lots of facts/leads on him and, at first glance, it all looks pretty sound. Just needs checking through and comparing with the documents you currently have

                                  I would start by getting the service record I suggested to make sure this is the same chap in the Beds. Regiment: it may contain lots of useful, new and corrobating information.

                                  What specifically are you not sure about?

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                                  • #18
                                    Hi Bertie,

                                    How do i go about getting hold of the service record? I have looked at what's available on FMP and there doesn't seem to be any information that would link him with my grandmother.

                                    By elusive i meant that i can't find anything that would prove that any of the information online relates to this particular man. If that is his army record it doesn't seem to be complete so there is no way of knowing if he is the right person. I do know that there was another George Alfred Jones in the army at a similar time and George Jones was a very common name.

                                    I only have the death certificate and marriage certificate and these don't give that much information.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      See my post #9 which shows a service record for George Alfred Jones. You can get this from FMP if you already subscribe or for a few credits if you buy them. Alternatively SKS here may look it up for you. If this man is in the Bedford Regiment and is promoted to Sergeant and is based in India this is most likely your man especially if his number mstches. The record (probably 4 or more pages) should give details of ehere he served and his promotions. You should also have date and place of birth snd poss. more

                                      See also my post on the burial. You can order a free copy of this from familysearch photoduplication

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                                      • #20
                                        Also see post #13which gives strong circumstantial evidence for the listed census records viz. Bletchley resident and Devonport born.

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